What the heck is "Unfun"?

[gizmo33]

You can't prove that something doesn't exist. That's one of the most basic tenets of logic.

This is an often quoted and completely inaccurate statement. I see this all of the time on the internet (though I can't prove it.)

You *can* in fact prove things don't exist, especially in a logical system where an element's existence would contradict a basic axiom of the system. For example, to use a famous problem - a construction of a square with the same area as a circle using only a straight-edge and compass does not exist. The technique has been proven to not exist.

However, saying that you haven't found something isn't proof that it doesn't exist, if that's what you mean.

 

[Glyfair]

Keeping track of arrows is so insignificant that I cannot believe that so many people have posted comments on it. If this is one of the important areas that WotC can improve with a new rule in 4E, then there is no need for a 4E. 3.5 is already wonderful beyond belief.

I don't believe that "keeping track of arrows" is anything other than an example. People aren't concerned about arrows, they either keep track of it or don't. No one is going to avoid 4E or buy into 4E because of how it deals with tracking arrows.

Dealing with bookkeeping is an issue. I wouldn't say it's a key issue, but it's not insignificant. The amount of bookkeeping in the game is an issue that some are concerned with. The amount of bookkeeping insignificant things in D&D is something I've seen keep people from trying the game. They don't want to deal with the hassle. They'll sit down and play Scrabble where they have 7 tiles to track, and someone has to keep score.

 

[KarinsDad]

That's a good point... You always come across the all powerful creature who demands that you give up a magic item to let you pass (give you the map, release his prisoner, etc). Where are the cowardly, weakish monsters who give YOU magic items to not kill THEM?

We've had that in campaigns before. Not often and not for real powerful magic, but once in a blue moon. It's a cute change of pace.

 

[Sundragon2012]

I could be wrong, but claims of players crying for "a Teifling paladin in Conan's Hyboria" strike me as an obvious straw man. I've got no problem with most of his actual points, but he's so bad at expressing and defending them that I find myself wanting to disagree with him.

Well this should help you get over that. Its a thread called DM Power to Disallow and it is a perfect representation of egregious player entitlement. It was a fun thread to participate in but pissed me off to no end.

I am not exaggerating much about the Tiefling in Hyboria, just read and see.

Also, I find it interesting that you have the energy to write about how my argument doesn't quite meet your standards but so far no points of your own other than how bad mine is.



Sundragon

 

[Grog]

This is an often quoted and completely inaccurate statement. I see this all of the time on the internet (though I can't prove it.)

You *can* in fact prove things don't exist, especially in a logical system where an element's existence would contradict a basic axiom of the system. For example, to use a famous problem - a construction of a square with the same area as a circle using only a straight-edge and compass does not exist. The technique has been proven to not exist.

However, saying that you haven't found something isn't proof that it doesn't exist, if that's what you mean.

Yes, I was using it as a shorthand. Claiming that X is true because X has not been proven false is a well-known logical fallacy.

 

[gizmo33]

That's a good point... You always come across the all powerful creature who demands that you give up a magic item to let you pass (give you the map, release his prisoner, etc). Where are the cowardly, weakish monsters who give YOU magic items to not kill THEM?

I'll tell you where they are! They were left on the cutting room floor to make room for the friggin rust monster!

This just occured to me too: you have cloud giants, cloud castles, and even a bag of magic beans in DnD. What you don't have in DnD is a goose that lays golden eggs. Why that *one* element of the story taken away, when all others are there?

 

[gizmo33]

Yes, I was using it as a shorthand. Claiming that X is true because X has not been proven false is a well-known logical fallacy.

Ok cool. I swear, I'm not cyber stalking you - I just swore the next time I saw someone say that I was going to chime in with my two nerdly copper pieces. Now that you say this, perhaps that's what everyone else has meant this whole time.

(edit: BTW - I got my eye on you "strawman". My spidey sense tells me that you're not being used properly either most of the time.)

 

[Gallo22]

Okay. Show them to me.


You can't prove a negative. That's one of the most basic tenets of logic.

sar·casm Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sahr-kaz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark:

 

[Doug McCrae]

DM Power to Disallow

I love how the OP banned fighters for being underpowered. That's genuinely awesome.

 

[Raven Crowking]

That's not how this works. You made the claim - you need to back it up.

This is only true if his goal is to convince you that his claim is true. If he doesn't care whether or not you are convinced, he doesn't need to back up his claim.

If I say "my singing sucks" and I don't care whether or not you believe me, I don't have to demonstrate.

RC

EDIT: BTW, claiming that something is untrue because it has not been proven to be true is a well-known logical fallacy also.