D&D 5E What the warlord needs in 5e and how to make it happen.

[Corwin]

Heck, why can't a 5th level battlemaster use sweeping attack every time he swings his maul? Instead of just an arbitrary four times per short rest (and that's assuming he doesn't use any of his limited superiority dice on other maneuvers)?

 

[Aldarc]

It's a Myrmidon now? But haven't you read the definition of a Myrmidon?! How is that possibly appropriate class name for an adventuring hero?!

In terms of the power level of these hypothetical "martial cantrips"? I would actually say that they should be comparable, but also not more powerful. To me the balancing factor of the warlord's abilities is their ability to execute them without fear of counterspelling, anti-magic zones, loss of spell components or foci, or other forms of magical suppression. These are potentially rare circumstances, but useful ones to remember. They would ideally provide a different sort of utility or offensive support than what magical cantrips provide.

 

[Garthanos]

. To me the balancing factor of the warlord's abilities is their ability to execute them without fear of counterspelling .

martial classes can have their focus broken just fine.... and rare to never occuring interference being used as a lame excuse for making a class too powerful or the converse not having them as an excuse to make another class lame... is bad design IMHO.

 

[Guest 6801328]

It's a Myrmidon now? But haven't you read the definition of a Myrmidon?! How is that possibly appropriate class name for an adventuring hero?!

You must have missed my post on that. I'm fine with it because only the nerdiest people in the world have any connotation for the word (sort of like Paladin) which means D&D could hijack it and in 10 years the D&D meaning would be the most common one (again, like Paladin).

Also, it squeaks by my "novice" test: "Novice Myrmidon" doesn't sound like an oxymoron.

In terms of the power level of these hypothetical "martial cantrips"? I would actually say that they should be comparable, but also not more powerful. To me the balancing factor of the warlord's abilities is their ability to execute them without fear of counterspelling, anti-magic zones, loss of spell components or foci, or other forms of magical suppression. These are potentially rare circumstances, but useful ones to remember. They would ideally provide a different sort of utility or offensive support than what magical cantrips provide.

Good point. They should actually be less powerful than, say, Cutting Words or Firebolt, because they wouldn't be subject to anti-magic effects.

 

[Aldarc]

You must have missed my post on that. I'm fine with it because only the nerdiest people in the world have any connotation for the word (sort of like Paladin) which means D&D could hijack it and in 10 years the D&D meaning would be the most common one (again, like Paladin).

Also, it squeaks by my "novice" test: "Novice Myrmidon" doesn't sound like an oxymoron.

Yes, but Myrmidon implies that the class follows orders unquestionably. That's not what you want in a hero!

Good point. They should actually be less powerful than, say, Cutting Words or Firebolt, because they wouldn't be subject to anti-magic effects.

I was not aware that Cutting Words is subject to anti-magic effects. Is this a Crawford ruling or your own ruling?

 

[Guest 6801328]

Yes, but Myrmidon implies that the class follows orders unquestionably. That's not what you want in a hero!

Just like Paladin implies that you're employed by Charlemagne. Again, that's the advantage of using an obscure word rather than a common one.

If you interpret it as "undaunted" rather than just "taking orders without questioning" it works great.

I was not aware that Cutting Words is subject to anti-magic effects. Is this a Crawford ruling or your own ruling?

Does that need a "ruling"? It's a Cantrip so it's magic, right?

 

[Aldarc]

Just like Paladin implies that you're employed by Charlemagne. Again, that's the advantage of using an obscure word rather than a common one.

If you interpret it as "undaunted" rather than just "taking orders without questioning" it works great.

Do we really want to repeat that mistake again?

Does that need a "ruling"? It's a Cantrip so it's magic, right?

I believe you are confusing Cutting Words with Vicious Mockery.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Do we really want to repeat that mistake again?

The Paladin mistake? Preferably not, but no name is perfect, and Paladin and Myrmidon are both waaaaaaay better than Warlord. IMO, of course.

I believe you are confusing Cutting Words with Vicious Mockery.

Doh. Yes, I was.

 

[TwoSix]

I'd be wary of a mechanic that purports to balance a powerful at-will ability by reducing the baseline power of the class itself. E.g., "It's ok if the Warlord gives the rogue an off-turn attack because the Warlord is pretty weak otherwise." That means the balancing of the class is dependent to an unprecedented degree on party composition. That way lies madness.

Well, that's kind of the rub, right? The power of various abilities doesn't really correlate to action types. (Rogues have the best single attack, but a Fighter or Paladin has the best Attack Action, but a Warlock might be better if they can cast a cantrip, but a Wizard would be even better if they can cast any spell). Warlords worked in 4e because you could assume that a basic attack from one class was roughly comparable to the basic attack from another class.

That being said, I'd be comfortable with the assumption that a Warlord would have high at-will damage (comparable to a Rogue) and building the Warlord around the Rogue chassis. Have the warlord spend an action to allow another character to make a single weapon attack or cast a cantrip as a reaction at level 1, then upgrade it to take an Attack action or cast a cantrip at level 5. Then give them the ability to allow someone to cast a 1st-2nd level spell as a reaction once per short rest (at level 5-6), cast a 3rd-5th level spell at level 11-12, and cast any level spell around level 18-19. Give a couple of healing and defensive options on a long rest schedule, and you're done.

 

[alienux]

I don't have anything to add to the discussion, but every time I see the subject line of this thread, I hear musically in my head, "What the Warlord needs now, is love sweet love."