What the...

[Hypersmurf]

Also, do note that for *most* spellcasting (spontaneous spellcasting being the exception), a Sudden Metamagic feat is eclipsed by a level-appropriet Metamagic Rod (3/day, rather than 1/day).

Don't forget the two debates that might change the "spontaneous spellcasting being the exception" note:

1. Does a Sudden Metamagic feat increase casting time when the metamagic feat is applied on the spot to a spell not prepared in a metamagic form in advance? If so, a Metamagic Rod is no worse for a spontaneous caster than the Sudden feat.

2. Does a Metamagic Rod allow a prepared caster to apply a feat at preparation time, or casting time? If at preparation time, the Sudden feat retains an advantage over the Rod for prepared casters.

-Hyp.

 

[Machiavelli]

When I want a blaster caster, I turn to the Geomancer with Divine Metamagic. At 10th-lvl he's casting 3rd-lvl spells as a 10th-lvl sorcerer, WITHOUT acane failure chances (full-plate and tower shield, here I come!) and using 11 extra levels of metamagic each day on his 3rd-lvl spells, with the option to spontaneously dump all of his lovely spell slots into healing if the need arises (44 spell levels worth!).
Levels: Cleric (3)/ Sorcerer (4)/ Geomancer (3).
Feats: Divine Metamagic, Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer), Widen Spell, Explosive Spell, Extra Turning.

My favorite is a widened, explosive fireball, for 10d6 fire damage +1d6 damage for every 10' thrown, up to a maximum of 24 extra bludgeoning damage for someone caught at the epicenter of this monstrosity. You end up with an 80'-wide crispy crater in the midst of a crowd of enemies, ringed with a layer of mowed-down foes. You can do this TWICE DAILY.

No, metamagic isn't underpowered if you do it right

 

[Mistwell]

Don't forget the two debates that might change the "spontaneous spellcasting being the exception" note:

1. Does a Sudden Metamagic feat increase casting time when the metamagic feat is applied on the spot to a spell not prepared in a metamagic form in advance? If so, a Metamagic Rod is no worse for a spontaneous caster than the Sudden feat.

2. Does a Metamagic Rod allow a prepared caster to apply a feat at preparation time, or casting time? If at preparation time, the Sudden feat retains an advantage over the Rod for prepared casters.

-Hyp.

How could I forget those debates...I still have scars from them!

 

[Liquidsabre]

A couple of our groups have had tons of great mileage out of the UA Spontaneous Metamagic variant over the last couple years! It works the same as the sudden feats 3/day except casters can only cast spells (modified by the metamagic feat) if they are capable of casting the spell at the increased spell level. Though the spell is still cast at it's original spell level, it's a cap that effectively doesn't allow the highest level spells known by a caster to be modified by these metamagic feats. The sudden feats are a nice complement to this as they allow a single use/day to overcome this limitation.

Do you use something different Piratecat? A sudden metamagic variant I would like to hear about!

 

[Rystil Arden]

How could I forget those debates...I still have scars from them!

Those debates were actually pretty funny. Both of them had answers that were pretty obviously the intent, but there were always people willing to defend the other side, with arguments that included "Your side may be right, but I want to nerf it anyway, so I'm going to argue that mine is equally likely"

 

[Question]

Geomancer? Whats that?

 

[wmasters]

Geomancer is Complete Diving, or Arcane, I forget which. You get horns and a tail and zebra stripes. It rocks.

Personally, I don't allow sudden metamagic either. But it depends on the sort of adventure you run. My adventures tend to have 0-2 combat encounters in any given day, it's rare that I'll have more. But some have 4, 5 or 6 combats in a day. In these cases, the sudden metamagic is a lot less broken.

 

[Aikuchi]

Complete Diving - that acutally sounds like something I'll get Like an surface/coastal adventure book supplement (as opposed to Stormwrack).

 

[shilsen]

As a house rule I use sudden metamagic feats in my game exclusively, usable three times a day. I find they don't particularly affect balance and they make the game a lot more fun for the spellcasters. I'm glad I adopted that rule.

I believe that's in Unearthed Arcana. I'm definitely using this variant next time I start a new D&D campaign.

The Unearthed Arcana variant, however, has an addendum - "the maximum level of spell to which a caster can apply a metamagic feat is equal to the maximum spell level she is capable of casting, minus the spell level adjustment of the metamagic feat." So, for example, a 9th lvl wizard with Empower Spell would be able to empower up to 3rd lvl spells (3/day) but not a 4th or 5th lvl spell.

I find it a very good variant and have used it in both of my Eberron campaigns with no trouble whatsoever. Since the metamagic feat is applied spontaneously and that's normally the sorcerer's schtick in the core rules, I allow sorcerers (and other spontaneous casters) to lower the spell level adjustment of metamagic feats by 1 (to a minimum of 0). So an 8th lvl sorcerer would be able to empower a 3rd lvl spell.

 

[Thanee]

The problem for such 1/day ablities for NPCs is, that usually it's not a real limit for an NPC. They are designed with PCs in mind, which usually run into multiple situations, where the ability could be useful, but can only use it in one of them. NPCs do not normally have this limitation.

For PCs the sudden metamagic feats are probably balanced (though breaking the spell cap can still cause problems), but for NPCs they might actually be a bit too powerful.

Bye
Thanee