What the...

[Infiniti2000]

I don't see what you're reading. Did you miss that the posts are about different rules? The first post says that the 3/day spontaneous metamagic rule is better. The second one says the 1/day rule is weaker. Where's the contradiction?

No, I didn't understand that from the posts. Thanks for clarifying it.

 

[Thanee]

Do you see the contradiction in these two posts? If it improves the game so much and all your spellcasting PC's get their feat's worth even at 1/day, ...

Piratecat uses the UA alternate version of metamagic, not the sudden metamagic feats. Those are 3/day and can be applied spontaneously, but can only be applied to spells if the total spell level including metamagic modification (if applied to the spell level) is no higher than the highest spell you can cast (with the class you use to cast the spell, of course ).

Err... I mean... what shilsen said.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Machiavelli]

When I found the Geomancer in Complete Divine I wanted to make the best use of it I could, but my first thought was actualy "OooOOOooo, horns! And claws and a tail, too! With photosynthetic vines for hair! I HAVE to play one of these!"

Then I found out just how broken Divine Metamagic is. That level cap for metamagic use would be perfect, because otherwise it just gets too insane too early. NOBODY should be able to cast a Fireball spell that has been Empowered, Maximized, and rendered Explosive. That's 8 extra spell levels, for a total of 11 spell levels in a single spell! There's no such thing as an 11th-level spell, but a human Cleric 3/Wizard 6/Geomancer 3 can cast it anyway without the level cap.


By the sound of them, I think I would greatly enjoy playing with UA's tweaked metamagic rules.

 

[Thanee]

The rule (which AFAIK originates from FR), that you cannot cast a metamagicked spell if the total spell level with the applied (regular) metamagic modifier (i.e. +3 for maximized, but for sudden maximized as well) is higher than the highest spell you can cast with the class that spell belongs to, should apply to each and every application of metamagic, be it the feat, or a magic item like the metamagic rods, or something like Divine Metamagic, or Instant Metamagic.

Bye
Thanee

 

[shilsen]

The rule (which AFAIK originates from FR), that you cannot cast a metamagicked spell if the total spell level with the applied (regular) metamagic modifier (i.e. +3 for maximized, but for sudden maximized as well) is higher than the highest spell you can cast with the class that spell belongs to, should apply to each and every application of metamagic, be it the feat, or a magic item like the metamagic rods, or something like Divine Metamagic, or Instant Metamagic.

Bye
Thanee

Absolutely. I think that would be an excellent balancing tool.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

A point that Wmasters made is where I think my frustration is seeded... we rarely fight more than one battle a day... sometimes it isn't even one a day (in game time). With spaced battles like that it has made it increasingly harder to stomach the far greater power of the tactical battle platform (i.e. 12th level sorcerer) over the fighter.

If it is fairly predictable that your PCs only fight one battle per day, I would eliminate the Sudden Metamagic feats. But that will not actually solve the fundamental problem -- savvy players playing spellcasters will always go to town under those circumstances.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Absolutely. I think that would be an excellent balancing tool.

Agreed, that it would.

 

[Mistwell]

When I want a blaster caster, I turn to the Geomancer with Divine Metamagic. At 10th-lvl he's casting 3rd-lvl spells as a 10th-lvl sorcerer, WITHOUT acane failure chances (full-plate and tower shield, here I come!) and using 11 extra levels of metamagic each day on his 3rd-lvl spells, with the option to spontaneously dump all of his lovely spell slots into healing if the need arises (44 spell levels worth!).
Levels: Cleric (3)/ Sorcerer (4)/ Geomancer (3).
Feats: Divine Metamagic, Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer), Widen Spell, Explosive Spell, Extra Turning.

My favorite is a widened, explosive fireball, for 10d6 fire damage +1d6 damage for every 10' thrown, up to a maximum of 24 extra bludgeoning damage for someone caught at the epicenter of this monstrosity. You end up with an 80'-wide crispy crater in the midst of a crowd of enemies, ringed with a layer of mowed-down foes. You can do this TWICE DAILY.

No, metamagic isn't underpowered if you do it right

The fact that you are using the most broken feat in the entire game (divine metamagic) to use normal metamagic feats isn't surprising...however, it doesn't really help the original poster decide if the SUDDEN metamagic feats are balanced or not!

 

[Mistwell]

The rule (which AFAIK originates from FR), that you cannot cast a metamagicked spell if the total spell level with the applied (regular) metamagic modifier (i.e. +3 for maximized, but for sudden maximized as well) is higher than the highest spell you can cast with the class that spell belongs to, should apply to each and every application of metamagic, be it the feat, or a magic item like the metamagic rods, or something like Divine Metamagic, or Instant Metamagic.

Bye
Thanee

I 100% agree. It would fix so many things if WOTC just followed that caveat themselves.

 

[Bad Paper]

Where the Sudden Maximize really showed its true colors was with the disentigrate spell. The 12th level wizard blasted the leader of another adventuring party with his sudden maximized disentigrate spell and the fight was pretty much over before it had even started.

Uhh, I don't know if it says in the feat description or not, but your DM is a fool if he lets you raise an effective spell level above the highest level you can cast. A maximized disintegrate should not be wielded by a wizard less than 17th level. So...yeah, I would have let the 12th-level wizard get out a sudden-maximized fireball, but beyond that it kills the game.

/recalling times before I implemented that rule, and the 11th level cleric went a bit too crazy with his divine metamagic maximized flame strikes...ooo