What the...

[Mouseferatu]

The fact that you are using the most broken feat in the entire game (divine metamagic) to use normal metamagic feats isn't surprising...however, it doesn't really help the original poster decide if the SUDDEN metamagic feats are balanced or not!

I don't find Divine Metamagic broken at all--if you incorporate the errata.

 

[Thanee]

Regardless of how many feats it costs... a 7th-level cleric with 24/7 Divine Power is not really balanced.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Mouseferatu]

Regardless of how many feats it costs... a 7th-level cleric with 24/7 Divine Power is not really balanced.

Bye
Thanee

That would be a problem with Persistent Spell--or at least its interaction with Divine Metamagic--and not a problem with Divine Metamagic itself, I think.

 

[Mistwell]

I don't find Divine Metamagic broken at all--if you incorporate the errata.

You might want to read the errata again. I do not think it does what you think it does. It does not reinstate the spell slot cap. THAT is what is most broken about Divine Metamagic. It was never the perceived ability to access metamagic feats you don't actually have that made it the most broken feat in the game. That was just a silly side effect that was also broken but not nearly as much as the lack of a cap.

 

[Mistwell]

Uhh, I don't know if it says in the feat description or not, but your DM is a fool if he lets you raise an effective spell level above the highest level you can cast. A maximized disintegrate should not be wielded by a wizard less than 17th level. So...yeah, I would have let the 12th-level wizard get out a sudden-maximized fireball, but beyond that it kills the game.

/recalling times before I implemented that rule, and the 11th level cleric went a bit too crazy with his divine metamagic maximized flame strikes...ooo

Well, his DM is playing by the RAW. There is no errata to fix the spell cap issue, and WOTC apparently thinks the feat is SUPPOSED to work without a cap. It's overpowered, and hence there is a very common house rule to fix it.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Ah, Divine Metamagic rears it's ugly head again. If I recall correctly from previous discussions about a year ago, this is one of the few points in which I strongly disagree with our Rodent of the Dark, but he's heard all your arguments before (possibly from me) and he's not going to give up easily

 

[Mouseferatu]

You might want to read the errata again. I do not think it does what you think it does. It does not reinstate the spell slot cap.

I'm aware.

 

[Thanee]

That would be a problem with Persistent Spell--or at least its interaction with Divine Metamagic--and not a problem with Divine Metamagic itself, I think.

Persistent Spell is perfectly fine without Divine Metamagic... a bit weak even.

Divine Metamagic is not perfectly fine without Persistent Spell, however.
Quicken Spell is almost as bad (not quite as bad, but still, and a bit cheaper to compensate).

Also Persistent Spell did exist already when Divine Metamagic was written.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Mouseferatu]

Divine Metamagic is not perfectly fine without Persistent Spell, however.
Quicken Spell is almost as bad (not quite as bad, but still, and a bit cheaper to compensate).

I'd disagree. I've seen builds designed to take full advantage of Divine Metamagic. They're potent, but they've got such a limited number of uses, I've yet to see them actually break the game.

(Edit: Just to clarify, I'm still talking about builds that don't allow Persistent Spell. I agree that that particular combination is broken.)

Also Persistent Spell did exist already when Divine Metamagic was written.

Did it? Complete Divine came out before Complete Arcane, and I don't remember if either of those feats existed prior to those books.

 

[Thanee]

Persistent Spell is from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (or was it Magic of Faerûn?), where it still had only a +4 level cost. It was reprinted for 3.5 in Player's Guide to Faerûn (with +6 levels) and later Complete Arcane.

Bye
Thanee