What traditional fantasy conventions are you tired of?

[Sejs]

(1) Gods That Care: Gods are manifestations of cosmic forces and as such are far too busy existing somewhere far away to care about what you do. The gods arn't some shadowy parental figure looming over your shoulder, waiting for you to mess up so they can send you to your room without supper. While a god's faith and following esposes a particular alignment and such, it's not a requirement. Ties in with...

(2) The Arcane/Divine Magic Divide: Gone. Magic is magic - and is an integral part of reality, just like gravity and light - and how you cast it doesn't change where it comes from. Much in the same way that you play a piano differently from how you play a violin, but they both produce music. "Divine" magic doesn't come from the gods, it comes from the caster just like arcane magic does, they just approach the same matter from different angles. As an aside, the cleric class in the PHB is replaced with the Cloistered Cleric UA varient, and ASF applies to everyone (unless the class says otherwise, like bards, paladins, rangers, assassins, etc). There are feats and a PrC that focuses on casting while armored, and anyone can effectivly "take 10" on casting a spell to bypass ASF - you take your time and make sure you do it correctly, but it's not useful if you need that blasting spell right here, right now.

(3) ...Oh, And Now There's Psionics!/Why Didn't We Notice That Before?: Magic has a functional Unified Field Theory, and how you cast it doesn't change where it comes from. To that end, in a game where there is magic, there is no psionics, and in a game where there is psionics, there is no magic.

(4) I Holy Smite The Mob Boss: Alignment-based magics only work on supernatural manifestations of that alignment, eg creatures with an alignment subtype, hallowed/unhallowed areas, and so on . A Paladin can't tell if the guy with the crazy eyes at the bar is a serial killer, but he can easily tell if he's possessed by a demon. Clerics/Paladins/Blackguards, etc do not have an alignment aura, except classes and PrCs that turn you into an outsider. Once you're an outsider, you gain the appropriate alignment subtype - so while you can't Chaos Hammer the captain of the guard, you can do it that 20th level Monk.

(5) Turning/Rebuking Undead: Gone... sorta. Turning and rebuking undead doesn't... well... turn or rebuke undead. The class ability is still there, but its primary function is to fuel divine feats, and those various misc. applications such as undoing a mystic seal or passing a particular ward, as are mentioned in the book. Zombie hordes just got interesting again.

(6) The Universal Translator: Already mentioned above pretty well. Regional languages, rather than unified ones. Two human kingdoms half a world appart from one another don't speak the same language. Kingdom A speaks Language A, and Kingdom A's neighbors probably speak Language A, too. Keep going and you'll run into Language B, so on and so forth until you're half a world away, and the locals are speaking Language N.

(7) Grrr, Roy Smash Puny Kobolds: Lets face it, before they started training to go adventuring, while they were growing up, everyone was basically the same thing - a commoner. Unless you were a noble, in which case you were a commoner with more money, nice shoes, and maybe some piano lessons. To that end, there are a pool of skills that are Class Skills to everyone, regardless of what they end up doing in life. Things like Profession, Craft, Handle Animal or Ride (pick one), and Swim. Doesn't mean you have to take them, just means you have the option to do so and not pay double-cost.


Heh, I've got more, but I can't think of them at the moment. ^_^

 

[Chupacabra]

Worn out game tropes? I have to break this down into some subcategories:

Things I am tired of and have abandoned / do not allow in my campaigns:

* The overabundance of half-(insert something other than elf or orc) races. There exist too darn many of them to make sense -- even in a fantasy setting. Plus, they often smack of a blatant attempt to squeeze the last drop of munchkin-juice out of two races.

* Elves being all-good or at least all-noble. I heartily enjoyed the depiction of the wood elves in The Hobbit: They were suspicious. They were xenophobic. They were militaristic. They were greedy. They locked up the heroes in a cage for weeks on end. They got drunk. They weren't simply some buncha altruistic nature lovers who lived in the woods yet never seemed to get their hair mussed or clothes dirty. They seemed more "real" to me than their later LOTR exemplars. Because I hate the saintly elf stereotype, I try to encourage elves in my campaigns to be as well-rounded and as good or as evil as a human would be -- varying moral shades of grey and all of that. And no, "evil elf" doesn't necessarily = "Drow" (a race I disallow as a PC).

* The ethic that the party must be well-rounded. Bah humbug I say! I don't like players (or GM's) to dictate to others what class to choose. Let's say a new campaign is starting with five players. Player one pretty much has unlimited choice in picking his or her PC. Player two has slightly less choice --they usually won't pick the same race/class that player one chose. By the time player five hears about the new game, guess what, they get the strong arm treatment from the GM or the other party members to run a cleric or rogue or whatever dump class the group is lacking. Hell, let the party be made up of all half-orc sorcerers or dwarven bards. So much the better. It will be more of a challenge to the DM to contruct meaningful campaigns and encounters and I guarantee more of a challege to the players to survive and thrive in that group than if the party was the same ol' "two warriors, a divine caster, a arcane caster, and a trapfinder." I try to discourage anyone playing a class just to fill some sort of percieved "hole" in the party.

* Favored classes. Someone tell me how this makes any sense whatsoever. If a clannish dwarf or an aloof elf or a fat&happy halfling or whatever is such the rebel that he/she/it leaves home and goes off to lead a life of adventuring why must that person be forever tied to some "racially favored class". Maybe the halfling fighter / wizard left home to become an adventurer precisely because he didn't fit in with the rest of his lithe-footed, quick-fingered, rogue-ish kin. Favored classes are done away with in my campaigns.


Things I am tired of but keep due to laziness or simplicity of game mechanics:

* Universal coinage. A gold piece from kingdom A should not be worth the same when you cross over the border into kingdom B, especially if A & B happen to be at war or otherwise dont like each other. It would be like walking into Washington DC circa 1863 with a sheaf of Confederate Dollars and expecting to rent a hotel room. Not gonna happen. Also, a "100 gp" pearl should fetch far more in some landlocked desert town than it would at an ocean-side fishing village. Although the realism of coins (and gems) from different realms being worth varying degrees of wealth appeals to me somewhat, the bookkeeping involved would be too laborious to cope with.

* Everyone ends up fighting with a sword. Sigh! Where are the mace-weilding fighters? When's the last time your paladin broke out a glaive? Seems that the bad guys always use some type of sword against us players, so when we loot those same said swords from the cold, dead hands of the newly departed bad guys, the party gains yet another sword, which we then use against the next bad guy wielding a slightly better sword. Oh sure, the evil wizard has a funky dagger in his belt and the big bad cleric swings a wicked flail or something, but most of the weapon loot has been and seemingly always will be swords. Yawn! As much as I try to steer the players in my campaigns into using different weapons, they always come back to the sword. Must be something Freudian. I've given up trying to change things. Oh well, I guess it's not called "Flails and Sorcery" for a reason.


Things that others I game with are fed up with but I see no problem with:

* My last GM had a big, big problem with Common. He hated it and ran it down at every opportunity. For him, each race spoke its own language with some overlap between races with similar backgrounds (say, dwarf and gnome). As players we sometimes found it difficult to exist in parts of the game world where one language predominated -- and we did not understand that language. I guess that would be more "real world" (if you are adventuring in Spain for example and don't know Spanish, you either learn it or move or quit your whining) but it irked us a players.


Tropes I wholeheartedly embrace:

* There WAS a golden age whose downfall left all those hidden pockets of magic and treasure squirred away in the dark places of the world. How the heck else do you explain it?

* Halflings are fat and happy, like Tolkein hobbits. Halflings are NOT overcaffineated and twitchy like (ugh) Kender (oh, how I hate kender..). And what's up with 3.0 / 3.5 making Halflings into nomadic gypsy like critters? Whats wrong with burrows and houses built into the sides of hills, etc. Hell, just own up to the fact that you stole the whole racial concept from Tolkein and move on. Why change 'em?

 

[Merlion]

I dont think there are many general fantasy conventions that I am tired of. Especially since there are not really very many of them anyway, outside of roleplaying games.

As far as DnD/RPG conventions theres a few, most of them specfically DnD.
In the campaign I have just started:

There is no Cleric. There is also no "divine" magic, theres just magic. There is a single supreme benevolent creator, and Powers of good that serve it (and evil powers as well). Some people know that, some dont...and so there are all manner of religions that have grown up.

The whole idea that all spellcasters are either arcane "nukers" or "divine" healers doesnt sit well with me. I've expanded the Wizard spell list a bit, and added a bloodline based sorcerer, a Witch and a Mystic class.

All that is probably my biggest one. The idea of a spellcasting, armor wearing "priest"...the idea that every culture is polytheistic, and that these polytheistic deities each have their own exclusive hieriarchial churches. The idea that what people know about gods and religions (and for that matter, magic, monsters etc) is all true. And also the fact that the existence of Clerics and all this other "divine" stuff pretty much negates the idea of faith...you dont have to have faith in your beliefs, because you have proof.

Also some of the racial sterotypes...or more, the assumption that every or even most races fit into that sterotype. Once again, especially with religion. The idea that every race has its own pantheon, and that those gods are real, and that that race knows all about this, and that 90% of them choose to follow their racial gods.

I'm not really wild about the magic-hating dwarf syndrome, especially since mythically, and in much literature Dwarves are actually quite magical...I mean how else do they make all those enchanted weapons and armor?

And of course, the Law/Chaos part of DnD alignment bugs me. And the Neutrality thing to...the whole deal of your "neutral" if you arent a crusader.

Most of whats been discussed here I either dont mind, or havent actually encountered. Not every world neccesarilly has a "golden age of heroes" although many do. I dont ever see myself completely tiring of the "standard" fantasy races, although new ones are always nice.

I think the idea that the heroes are above average is fine, but that doesnt mean that they have to be "chosen" or that what they are doing is tied to some special destiny, although thats fine as well.

Overall I enjoy most of the standby's of fantasy, but some of DnDs idiosyncrisies are begining to annoy me

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

The Arcane/Divine divide.

Alignment.

And perhaps most of all:

D&D-style Outsiders.

This is one of the best things in d20 Modern and Arcana Unearthed (and to a lesser extent the Iron Kingdoms): outsiders different from the classic D&D types. I'm so sick of the lot of balors, solars and pit fiends, not to mention slaadi, modrons, formians, etc.; they don't inspire anything like the kind of mystical awe they should, either by their flavor or their abilities.

 

[Desdichado]

There is no Cleric. There is also no "divine" magic, theres just magic. There is a single supreme benevolent creator, and Powers of good that serve it (and evil powers as well). Some people know that, some dont...and so there are all manner of religions that have grown up.

Heh. I do admit to feeling a bit rat-bastardy when a party I was running a one-shot for went to the local church for some healing. Guess what? The local "cleric" was an Expert-5 with maxed out ranks in Knowledge (Religion). He tried to do some Heal checks without any skill ranks; and with a negative "bonus" because his wisdom was like 7 or 8. I think he actually made their wounds worse until they left the church in disgust to go look for a surgeon.

 

[Desdichado]

This is one of the best things in d20 Modern and Arcana Unearthed (and to a lesser extent the Iron Kingdoms): outsiders different from the classic D&D types. I'm so sick of the lot of balors, solars and pit fiends, not to mention slaadi, modrons, formians, etc.; they don't inspire anything like the kind of mystical awe they should, either by their flavor or their abilities.

Well, especially if you call them balors, or solars, or whatnot. The classic demon/devil and angel are classics for a reason, but you have to run them well.

For outsiders, have you checked out Green Ronin's Book of Fiends? Other than the Monsternomicon its the book that gets the most use in my campaign...

 

[Desdichado]

This is an interesting question. On the one hand, tropes are repetitive. On the other, they represent the form and function of the gameworld -- that is, the reason we keep coming back to play D&D is because it is structured enough that it allows us to be truly creative. Kind of like a sonnet.

Uh, speak for yourself. The use of Vancian magic, elves and clerics may the equivalent of using the form of a sonnet, but sometimes we'd rather have haiku, or free-form prose. I don't come back to D&D because I like metaphorical sonnets; in fact, I'm distancing myself more and more from D&D in general, whilst embracing a broader definition of d20.

I think both answers are wrong. A truly useful setting will play on tropes. Rather than discarding metahuman races, they become interesting and new societies that play off of the expectations of the prior trope. A good example would be halflings in Dark Sun: not your momma's hobbit.

Yet not particularly interesting either. Just weird for weird's sake. That's the problem with your approach; it's both pretentious and at the same time it really doesn't work. "Oh, our elves are different; they're called Æl’ffynn, and they live in the tundra, not the forest!" No thanks.

Rather than hating tropes, use them, play off of them, and transform them.

Or just use something else that you like better, or which makes more sense. The conventions of typical D&D-esque fantasy aren't sacred, they're just what they are. In general, if the fantasy races are little more than one-trick ponies (Dark Sun halflings) or men in rubber suits (your own Hunnic centaurs) than I'd rather them simply be a culture of humans instead.

 

[VirgilCaine]

1. Elves being noble. In my homebrew world I'm creating, Elves are stinking, disorganized gypsies. (Elves are my favourite D&D race, and they're still the most progressive of all of the D&D races, but they're powerless and completely disrespected)

2. Orcs being evil. Just because they're evil in Tolkien doesn't mean they always have to be evil.

1. IMC, Elves are one of four places:

1. Shadow-Bound on the Plane of Shadow. (See The Shadow Glade Random Encounters on WotC site) a la Shadar-kai from the 3e FF.
2. Seelie/Unseelie types on the Plane of Faerie. The most inclined to (relatively) peacefully interact with humans, but they don't bother unless their attention is attracted, for weal or woe.
3. Drow. They are either slaves or escaped slaves of the monolithic beholder/illithid empire.
4. Undead of various types. All the "normal elves" were "deadified" when Thurken the Reviled (a very stupid Bugbear) wished that the Elves would die...and they did, sort of.

Also, Lolth died when another idiot went beyond the stated boundaries of wish. Yeah, thats what I do to people who don't listen when I say something.

Of course, all of these Elves are pretty antisocial, even the Seelie types. And there aren't any Elven artifacts or great Elven anything (notice Elves have no Int bonus? Yeah.).

2. IMC, PHB Orcs have been "trumped" by a goblinoid empire--any that have survived are pitiable, humbled beings.

 

[Sir Elton]

Actually, I'm beginning to wonder why at the Sword and Sorcery trappings of D&D when D&D itself isn't Sword and Sorcery.

 

[Merlion]

Run that by me again?