D&D 4E What was Paizo thinking? 3.75 the 4E clone?

[Shadewyn]

Are you aware of any new marketing survey, after the one that brought us 3e?


RC

New marketing information post 3.0?

Yes.

But that gets into a LONG speculative debate on company proprietary data that an never be proven one way or another on a web board.

Instead ask yourself this ...

Which company is better positioned to have access to the marketing data that reflects the consumer behaviors of the D&D gamers? WotC? Paizo?

And as for the folks chipping in phrases such as "4E is just about making money not that it was needed" ... I think I will just say ... well DUH. Kinda a basic point of capatilism is to provide customers products they want to buy. You COULD manage a company building superior products that you think match what the customer should be using ... or you can sell them what the customer wants.

The fact that there is a push to 4E is a sign that there is not only a market for a new product but that it is a profitable one as well from WotC. Due you really think for an instant that the corporate overlords in Hasbro release ANYTHING without marketing surveys? Every product that exists in the mainstream corproate world has a lot of "focus" testing and marketing these days before it ever sees the light of day.

On the other hand we have Paizo with a weak sauce toe in the water approach speculating about whether there is or is not ... or perhaps based on web hits they can extrapolate ... or feedback from free alphas they can estimate ... Put yourself in the role of an investor. Which company do your think knows the market?

Arguing that a market COULD exist and MAY be profitable in the future is the Paizo strategy.

Doing the research that a market DOES exist and WILL be profitable is the WotC strategy.

On any given day Paizo can get lucky, but I certainly would not bet the rent money on it due to the level of risk involved.

 

[tricky_bob]

Any point you were trying to make is completely invalidated by this statement.

Well I'm guessing you don't want a ROLE-playing game. Its a challenge to role-play in the 3.5 system but 4.0 is just another step towards a board game version of WOW.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

<snip>

Beautiful.


Hey fellow posters, how about we learn some self-moderation and don't feel baited into responding any more to a certain line of posts? You all know I don't like red text in threads. It makes me feel anxious, and as is if it was somehow my fault.

 

[Jack99]

Well I'm guessing you don't want a ROLE-playing game. Its a challenge to role-play in the 3.5 system but 4.0 is just another step towards a board game version of WOW.

If you feel it is a challenge to roleplay in 3.5, maybe the problem lies outside the game....

Cheers

 

[tricky_bob]

And as for the folks chipping in phrases such as "4E is just about making money not that it was needed" ... I think I will just say ... well DUH. .

Buying into it supports this. Saying NO means maybe the current players will get what they want.

Kinda a basic point of capatilism is to provide customers products they want to buy.
.

WotC wanting us to buy it doesn't mean we want to buy it.

 

[tricky_bob]

Beautiful.


Hey fellow posters, how about we learn some self-moderation and don't feel baited into responding any more to a certain line of posts? You all know I don't like red text in threads. It makes me feel anxious, and as is if it was somehow my fault.

Fair enough, I apologise for the tone of my post.

I just don't understand why so many people are jumping on the 4.0 bandwagon before it has been released.
3P may not be perfected yet, but at least we get a look and a say on how it develops, which can't be a bad thing. But the most important reason to support 3P is that you get to keep all your current books and still use them, instead of having to start over.

 

[Fobok]

Fair enough, I apologise for the tone of my post.

I just don't understand why so many people are jumping on the 4.0 bandwagon before it has been released.

The same reason I pre-ordered Star Wars Saga Edition. I liked what I saw in the previews. Same thing with Game of Thrones RPG. The new World of Darkness books.

And, as for why I want a new system when I already have 3.5: the same reason I bought Mutants and Masterminds, Classic Battletech RPG, and many others. I like RPGs, I buy the ones I like the look of and have a chance of getting a group of.

 

[Jack99]

Fair enough, I apologise for the tone of my post.

I just don't understand why so many people are jumping on the 4.0 bandwagon before it has been released.

First of all, it's 4e, not 4.0. As to why, well, maybe that tells you something about how many people feel about 3.x. Or maybe it tells you that many people like what we have seen so far about 4e.

3P may not be perfected yet, but at least we get a look and a say on how it develops, which can't be a bad thing. But the most important reason to support 3P is that you get to keep all your current books and still use them, instead of having to start over.

Maybe some of us feel that if 3.x hasn't been perfected, after 8 years, it won't happen. Maybe there are some issues at the core of the system, that aren't patchable.
As to the books, you would be surprised how much you can use from prior editions. This isn't such a bad thing, besides, new books = the win

Edit: For better over-all tone!

 

[Dragonblade]

Well I'm guessing you don't want a ROLE-playing game. Its a challenge to role-play in the 3.5 system but 4.0 is just another step towards a board game version of WOW.

Well, a response like that deserves a response like this:

I just don't understand why so many people are jumping on the 4.0 bandwagon before it has been released.

Basically, I'm burnt out on 3e. I have worked around and overlooked the fundamental flaws in the system for a long time. But its just become too much work.

Will 4e be the answer? I don't know. I won't know until June. But the designers seem to be addressing every problem I have ever had. And that makes me very pro-4e.

 

[Keoki]

yes cause Conan, True20, hackmaster and others that are based on the same rules as DnD are doing so horrible. All the companies making them are still in business and selling more products for them. Paizo doesn't have to outsell WotC it doesn't even have to have huge sales only enough to make a profit. If only 1 in 20 3e players goes with them instead of 4e which i think is a reasonable number and wouldn't be remotely surprising to see, then Paizo will make a good profit.

Again, an unfair comparison. Conan has its own name recognition and is likely to sell regardless of the system, as long as that system isn't utter crap. True20 and Hackmaster I can't envision lasting too long after 4E for the reasons outlined above. Just give it time, and see whether they're still viable in a few years.