What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[Maxperson]

Don't blame little Star Wars.
He is a good kid.
He just started watching them Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers, and well then the immulation and hero worship kicked in.
Give'um another chance your honor.
I am sure he will grow out of it.

He hasn't been "little" or a "kid" since he was Star Skirmish, and that was a long time ago, in...

 

[Thourne]

He hasn't been "little" or a "kid" since he was Star Skirmish, and that was a long time ago, in...

It isn't like he is running around the galaxy threatening people with a sword or anything though!

 

[MGibster]

I'm not trying to be down on you, but it seems a bit weird to be that opposed to it. Did you have a bad experience with it or something?

I don't know what constitutes being that opposed to it rather than just opposed to it. The X-Card is just a safe word, a safety tool adopted by members of communities who regularly engage in activites that carry an inherent risk of harming participants. I do not believe RPGs carry any significant risk for causing mental or physical trauma to participants. If they do carry that risk then I owe Pat Pulling and other critics from the 1980s an apology. There are other criticisms, but this is the primary reason I'm opposed to it. If you or anyone else wants to use it at their table, fine, I'm not going to argue with you, if it makes you and your players better then more power to you. But it's not a tool I'll ever use for my games.

Not the end of the world if someone doesn't want to use it in my book, and if they don't suggest it I wouldn't ask. Except if say it was a game of Monsterhearts, so something similar. Regular D&D I don't expect too much weird stuff, but then I doubt I would ever play D&D at a convention, I go to cons to experience the weird stuff.

I tend to game with people I know and on the rare occasions I run games with strangers the content is pretty tame. I'm not going to run a game of Kult featuring graphic descriptions of mutilations in a public venue. Honestly, young children could hang around my con games. I don't even swear.

 

[Thourne]

I'm not going to run a game of Kult featuring graphic descriptions of mutilations in a public venue.

This seems a wise choice for everyone just in general

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

This seems a wise choice for everyone just in general

Well, it does depend on whether it's graphic descriptions of (mutilations in a public venue) or (graphic descriptions of mutilations) in a public venue....

 

[Thourne]

Well, it does depend on whether it's graphic descriptions of (mutilations in a public venue) or (graphic descriptions of mutilations) in a public venue....

Probably safer to avoid both

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't know what constitutes being that opposed to it rather than just opposed to it. The X-Card is just a safe word, a safety tool adopted by members of communities who regularly engage in activites that carry an inherent risk of harming participants. I do not believe RPGs carry any significant risk for causing mental or physical trauma to participants. If they do carry that risk then I owe Pat Pulling and other critics from the 1980s an apology. There are other criticisms, but this is the primary reason I'm opposed to it. If you or anyone else wants to use it at their table, fine, I'm not going to argue with you, if it makes you and your players better then more power to you. But it's not a tool I'll ever use for my games.

I guess the "that opposed" is I don't see the "I don't have a high opinion of it". That's what elevates it from the common-and-garden "My games are tame-as-hell so I don't think I need it!", which is what you seem to say later. I can understand people who play a narrow gamut of games largely with people they know or which are very PG-friendly not feeling they need it and honestly the vast majority of groups who use the X-card, don't need it. I think the only person who has ever pulled it in my games is me and that was largely to show how it was used. But anyone could, so it's there. It's like, I've ridden the tube maybe most days for like, the last 35 years, and I've never seen anyone actually have to pull the emergency alarm (aka emergency brake). But I'm glad it's there nonetheless. And I don't "not have a high opinion" of the emergency alarm.

 

[Imaro]

Could someone clearly and succinctly present an argument against having slavery in a setting in such a way that their argument isn't an appeal to emotion? Because I really don't see the issue. Yes, slavery is bad. But I have no problem with it being in a setting, or for that matter the players owning slaves or enslaving people, or the PCs potentially being enslaved. If you care about simulating a plausible world, these are things that very well could happen. It would likely occur for much the same reasons it occurs in the real world, and would thus be thought provoking (at least, I certainly hope it would!). I also think people are focusing far too much on the transatlantic slave trade and completely ignoring other instances of slavery that have existed, in particular the ancient world and the Islamic world (as an aside, it was fairly common practice in Muslim empires to castrate male slaves (I believe this also occurred in China, and too a lesser extent Rome)). Excising slavery from a setting purely on the basis that it is bad, and claiming that it is a lazy/cheap tool to use when building a world is dismissive of people in the real world that managed to achieve remarkable things despite having been enslaved.

So any fictional world that doesn't have slavery is dismissive of people in the real world that managed to achieve remarkable things despite having been enslaved...and you speak for all the enslaved... how again??

Someone earlier in this thread said you could remove slavery from your Fantasy Rome and it would be the same. No. It wouldn't. It completely changes things. Many things in Rome's history stem directly from it having had at various points in it's history, more slaves than free people. I also saw someone say (back when people were talking about Yasuke) that there was no reason you couldn't have Africans living in your Fantasy Japan. This is at best misguided, and at worst obtuse. Firstly, having Africans living in Fantasy Japan in large numbers makes light the achievements of Yasuke, by making him no longer so unusual, and secondly it makes your world highly implausible. Do you realize how geographically separated Japan and Africa are? The chances of relatively large numbers of Africans managing to get to Japan are slim at best.

Because black samurai as opposed to elves, dragons and mind flayers are where we draw the line of implausibility... this line of thinking is a joke and one of the things that's highly off-putting to black people who want to game. If this is the limit of your imagination I'd never want to play in your game.

TL;DR: The transatlantic slave trade was unusually horrific and well publicized as far as slavery goes. There have been roughly two types of slaves in history: "field" slaves and "house" slaves, with house slaves being relatively well treated and often trusted, slaves were generally protected by laws, and could general (in theory) buy their freedom, and some people had access to opportunities and freedoms that they may never have had if they weren't enslaved***. Serfs are not in any way similar to slaves.

***To be absolutely clear that does not mean I condone slavery in any way. Only that there have been instances of slaves achieving remarkable things as a consequence of their contact with people they would otherwise have never met, and their own intelligence and skill.

To be absolutely clear...You have no idea what they would have achieved or had access to if they had never become slaves. You keep postulating on things you can't possibly know... so maybe you just shouldn't. You're exactly the type I wouldn't want to game with and all your excuses and restrictions you typed out above show me is a lack of imagination (at least insofar as specific things/people are concerned) that is nothing more than a failing of creativity on your part.

 

[MGibster]

I guess the "that opposed" is I don't see the "I don't have a high opinion of it". That's what elevates it from the common-and-garden "My games are tame-as-hell so I don't think I need it!", which is what you seem to say later. I can understand people who play a narrow gamut of games largely with people they know or which are very PG-friendly not feeling they need it and honestly the vast majority of groups who use the X-card, don't need it.

I'm one of those weirdos who believes context is important. What I think might be appropriate in the privacy of my own home with players I know might not be something I believe is appropriate in a public venue with people I don't know. And at a con, I have to be considerate of not only the players but others who might be sharing the space. As such, my con games, even if we're playing Call of Ctulhu, are rather tame. My home games aren't always so tame. I don't generally worry about the players, but what's appropriate for Vampire might not be appropriate for D&D. Context matters.

I think the only person who has ever pulled it in my games is me and that was largely to show how it was used. But anyone could, so it's there. It's like, I've ridden the tube maybe most days for like, the last 35 years, and I've never seen anyone actually have to pull the emergency alarm (aka emergency brake). But I'm glad it's there nonetheless. And I don't "not have a high opinion" of the emergency alarm.

That's great. I just disagre that D&D needs an emergency brake. Personally, I think it's silly. But like I said, if you want it in your game, you do you.

 

[Bagpuss]

I tend to game with people I know and on the rare occasions I run games with strangers the content is pretty tame. I'm not going to run a game of Kult featuring graphic descriptions of mutilations in a public venue. Honestly, young children could hang around my con games. I don't even swear.

I tend to play with people I know most of the time, but there are games that I know they don't enjoy.

When I go to conventions I run mainly Call of Cthulhu with significant descriptions on death and mutilations, or even odd games like Monsterhearts which features sexual and queer content. But the con I go most frequently to is in a University and each group gets their own tutorial room so you don't have people wandering by.