What were the 3 software developers ordered to cease and dissist?

[smetzger]

Posted on the Wizards messageboards by someone from PC Gen:
Could we be? Yes. But that holds true for every other CharGen
program that is fan based.

I disagree with that one. There are plenty of ways to do this legally and some developers already are doing it legally.

What were the other two software packages? TwinRose and RPM?

 

[Luke]

I really want to hear from Luke, is RPM still possible dude?

Haven't received any cease and desist order. Far as I know, RPM is fine.

Just over a month ago I "got grilled" by Wizards over the legality of RPM. I've actually gone to a *lot* of trouble to ensure that RPM complies properly with the OGL. Originally I called it D20master, but changed the name after I realized that you couldn't do the software justice under the d20 trademark. Luckily, Ryan Dancey confirmed this pretty early for me.
I actually went through the legality check with Anthony Valterra, and I believe that I came through satisfactorily. I have to say that I've found Anthony to be very pleasant, firm, and fair. Guys like Ryan and Anthony make D&D/D20 the great system that it is today. In fact, I've actually found Anthony to be quite helpful, outside his role of ensuring licence compliance.

My experience to date is that these WotC guys *are* for the fans. There are certain things that they have to do to fulfil their corporate obligations, but the properly licensed SRD is an incredibly great gift they've given us. It also happens to have worked out really well for *them*

I think that the PCGen guys aren't too worried anyway. They'll very likely have to pull at least the Wizards non-SRD material.

I'll be very surprised if I'm served a "cease and desist", but if there is an issue, it's almost certainly likely to be something that can be cleaned up within the time-period allowed for by the licence.

 

[Cergorach]

Thanks Luke for the quick response!

 

[MaxKaladin]

Re: quote from Bryan

This is from Bryan, the head of PCGen. He sent this out to the PCGen list today (can also be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen/message/42363)

Some of you may be wondering why some stuff has been pulled from our data files and why all the pre-3.0.0 releases have been removed (well, hidden, not removed). There will be some other changes as well, but they'll mostly be minor in nature from a user-perspective. We'll have a formal announcement about all this in the very near future, but believe me when I tell you it's actually good news. We're dotting our i's and crossing our t's to make sure everything is in perfect order so that absolutely no one can have any qualm about us from any kind of perspective. We'll give more details when thingshave firmed up, but things are looking good. We've had some very exciting discussions with a number of companies which could completely surpass my wildest dreams of what PCGen could become. You'll understand why I have to be vague once we can make all the details available. This is gonna be incredible!

That's what I was afraid of. In order to be 'legal' they'll have to remove a bunch of data so it's a major hassle to use any optional material with it (since you'll have to type reams of data in by yourself). That's a major blow to me since I do all my PCs and major NPCs in PCGen. It looks like some of the other companies out there have a different view of things. It would be ironic if, in order to continue using the software that has become so central to my campaign, I were to stop using Wizards suppliments and only used 3rd party stuff because that's what I could get data for.

 

[kingpaul]

Re: Re: quote from Bryan

That's what I was afraid of. In order to be 'legal' they'll have to remove a bunch of data so it's a major hassle to use any optional material with it (since you'll have to type reams of data in by yourself). That's a major blow to me since I do all my PCs and major NPCs in PCGen. It looks like some of the other companies out there have a different view of things. It would be ironic if, in order to continue using the software that has become so central to my campaign, I were to stop using Wizards suppliments and only used 3rd party stuff because that's what I could get data for.

This just from Mynex (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen/message/42488)

Simple and direct. PCGen is NOT going anywhere, it is NOT dying, it is NOT 'splitting' up and going underground.

We won't have the other Non-SRD WotC material for a while, and because of licensing issues, Lucas, Jordan, etc, we may never get them back, BUT, we have a path to follow that is long and arduous, but may allow us to get them back in eventually.

So everyone please relax and stop trying to guess what's up, we'll let everyone know very soon what's up specifically.

So, it looks like they may get some of the non-SRD stuff later, just not right now. However, they've promised to put out an announcement in the next couple days.

 

[Nathanael]

I'm not surprised in the least.

I mentioned this many times on the WOTC board as well as Fluid's. The reason the SRD hasn't been updated in forever was always in my mind a way for WOTC/HASBRO to keep complete control of those properties for just this reason. And now it seems, I am proven correct. Watch and see as all of the non-SRD material is taken out of PCGen, making it, functionally, no more than ETools is presently.

I predicted this move to hobble the free competition once ETools came out so the gaming community would be forced to wait for ETools to catch up with the other more complete programmes like PCGen. You can't sell ETools if there are programmes out there with more content. Everyone of course, told me this was complete paranoia and if WOTC/HASBRO hadn't done it up to this point, then they would never bother.

I never blamed Fluid, and as a matter of fact, I had decided to think positively about the product ever since Scott answered my expansion questions, which have now been reported widely and encouraged many to buy ETools. Now I'm glad there weren't many copies available at my FLGS. I've been saved a world of anxiety concerning whether or not this product would be updated.

My current prediction: ETools will have to sell great, Pokemon sized amounts within the next 90 days or WOTC will drop it faster than Chainmail and deny anyone the right to expand the base programme beyond what is contained in the stillborn SRD. The corporate heads are THAT kind of business person.

I think it's about time that WOTC/HASBRO sold D&D to somebody who cares about the product, won't fire off the designers and put creative decisions in the hands of business managers, and who can see profit as meaning 'any amount left over after costs have been subtracted' as opposed to 'any amount, after cost, that rivals the GNP of a third world nation which ensures the executives a new 100 foot boat and house in Malibu.'

 

[Cergorach]

Re: Re: quote from Bryan

That's what I was afraid of. In order to be 'legal' they'll have to remove a bunch of data so it's a major hassle to use any optional material with it (since you'll have to type reams of data in by yourself). That's a major blow to me since I do all my PCs and major NPCs in PCGen. It looks like some of the other companies out there have a different view of things. It would be ironic if, in order to continue using the software that has become so central to my campaign, I were to stop using Wizards suppliments and only used 3rd party stuff because that's what I could get data for.

Don't be foolish, just because it's not on the main pcgen site, doesn't mean the data isn't around. It just doesn't come with each and every install...

Now, i'm guessing that you still have the 2.7.0 .lst files, if you don't just email me and i'll send them to you...

I'm very happy that we still have a tool where we can customize to our hearts content. Thanks PcGen folks!

 

[MaxKaladin]

Oh, I have half a dozen sets of data files around. Its a side effect of not clearing out my 'downloads' directory regularly. I'm more concerned about future releases.

 

[Leopold]

Howdy folks! Just got back from GenCon after an exhausting Tour of Duty! Allot of stuff went down and allot of things took place that I am not 100% privy too nor can confirm things.

What I can tell you is this: PCGen is alive and well. We are going to go through the code to make it OGL compliant as both Mynex and Merton said. They had a meeting with Anthony Valdera that helped explain allot of things to us as far as code and licensing compliance and so forth.

What does this mean to y'all? All the material NOT in the SRD has been removed from the releases. All the material from the D20 publishers that have given us permission is still there as well as dozens (and I mean DOZENS!) of new companies will be added in the future.

We were among the 3 that got talked to and if the others that got talked too want to chime in than by all means they can. I don't know for sure who else was spoken with so I cannot confirm things and don't want rumors to start that aren't true, bad politics and all.


So folks, in a few short weeks we will be getting things in order, we have so many new books that will be encoded into PCGen that it's ridiculous. I will be working with Mynex, Tir Gwaith (big lst designer), and Meton_Monk to get a running list of titles that y'all can expect from us in the future.

The future for PCGen is bright and our star is shining and it's only going to go up from here. Trust me on this!


A full gencon recap will be posted when I can talk with the other guys to say what we can and cannot say. But for now folks, download PCGen with the material that is in the release now and provide as much feedback on it as you can.

Questions, comments, and concerns, are always welcome and appreciated.


Leopold

 

[Cergorach]

Oh, I have half a dozen sets of data files around. Its a side effect of not clearing out my 'downloads' directory regularly. I'm more concerned about future releases.

Someone will post it somewhere and it will be spread around like the plague, that's just the way it is...