D&D Movie/TV What would a good D&D movie be like?

[Ristamar]

Yet, despite having the exact same power behind it, and a far more established fiction, John Carter flopped badly.

We were discussing the idea of using established D&D fiction as the basis for a movie. My point is that lots of successful movies have been based on much, much less than a full series of novels, and done quite well.

John Carter did have an established fiction, though I doubt the vast majority of the younger audience Disney was hoping to attract was even remotely familiar with the story. I'd also strongly disagree that John Carter's cast had nearly the same draw of Pirates.

Those two items aside, I'm not sure how that helps the cause for a D&D film.

I understand that a successful movie can spawn from a simple idea with no established fiction. But if a big budget Disney flick can flop, how does that inspire confidence for a lesser know cast with a small budget tied to an IP that's batting 0-3 in its previous movie efforts? Given how fleeting success can be in the movie industry even when working with a solid budget and cast, why shouldn't an existing IP with a troubled past leverage one of the few strengths it has?

 

[Ristamar]

It did have a $140 million budget and it was produced by the Disney juggernaut, but it was considered for straight-to-video treatment a few years earlier. As far as the star power goes, Johnny Depp is a wonderful actor, but he's not exactly a reliable draw, in part, because he works on quirky projects, many of which may appeal to him... and not that many other people. Orlando Bloom was buzzing thanks to Lord of the Rings but did that translate into leading man draw? Hard to say. Kiera Knightly had made Bend it Like Beckham but her big draw years would come after Pirates of the Caribbean.

Your point regarding Kiera Knightley is fair. Depp's name wasn't as strongly associated with troubled films at that time. Blow and From Hell weren't wildly successful, but they weren't financial flops, and Chocolat was a box office and critical success. Geoffrey Rush wasn't a bad draw, either, having recent success in Shakespeare in Love and critical acclaim in Quills.

It didn't suck. It not only didn't suck, it was unexpectedly fantastic. The story was fun and exciting. The acting was fun to watch, from the earnest Will Turner, to the warped Jack Sparrow and Hector Barbossa, down to the memorable Pintel and Ragetti. Unfortunately, trying to capture the same thing with any other movie is a bit like catching lightning. Everybody wants to do so, but only a small portion will succeed. It's hard to rely on doing so - but there are ways to make it more likely - none of which, I think, depend on marketing muscle, well-known star power (as opposed to passionate ability whether from a well-known star or not), or a massive budget.

No one can argue with the goal of "don't make it suck." Marketing, star power, and budget certainly don't guarantee success, but they usually don't hurt the cause, either.

 

[Greg K]

As far as the idea that you can't do "D&D" as a movie, I would point to several popular movie titles that have certainly started with less. Pirates of the Carribean is based on a, what, ten minute Disney World ride. Disney's taking another swing at the cat with Tomorrowland. Not sure how well it's doing, but, it's certainly being tried.

D&D has a mountain of built in flavour to use. No, it really isn't "generic fantasy" and, as proof of that, I point to how hard it is to actually mold D&D around existing fantasy worlds. D&D does a terrible job of Tolkien's Middle Earth. Trying to do Game of Thrones in D&D is an exercise in frustration. So on and so forth.

Earlier someone said that Harry Potter isn't what they want to see. But, honestly, I think as far as the world goes, Potterverse is probably closer to a D&D world than Conan. Revel in it. D&D is pretty high magic - so, make fantasy worlds where magic is everywhere. Keep it in the background, similar to the Star Wars movies. Heroes are walking down the street and see a cart being drawn by giant beetles while a procession of priests are being carried aloft by flying whosits. Magic stuff all over the place. If they do a "dungeon crawl", which, in a D&D movie, they probably should, then Hogwarts should be the inspiration - floating stairs that move, talking statuary, ghosts, etc.

IMO, that's how you differentiate a D&D world franchise. It's not just a Medieval world with a bit of magic, it's a Magic World set in a medieval period. Dragon born were mentioned earlier. Why the heck not? That's a purely D&D race, one of the very few. I'd expect to see Dragonborn in a D&D movie. Easy action figures and they look cool. And you have the added bonus of not being another Tolkien rip-off.

Don't mix up your preference for "this is what a D&D world is". Your description of beetles pulling carts and clerics on flying whosits does not describe Gary's Greyhawk as published in the Gord novels (at least those I read). It does not fit the original Dragonlance trilogy. It does not fit the early Forgotten Realms books that read. Your description is merely one way a D&D world can be approached .

 

[Remathilis]

Ah. I had thought that plot point only came in with the second game. If it is indeed indispensable, then I'd rather they do something else - the one fated saviour trope is horribly over-used in fantasy stories.

Mostly because it works.

Now, BG plays with the trope a bit; the antagonist is trying to be the savior and needs you dead to gain your power, but in the end the hero has power and he must choose to protect or destroy with it. As a Campbell Disciple, I think the Hero with 1,000 Faces tropes work; they worked for Homer, Virgil, Chaucer, Malory, Tolkien, and Lucas, they can work for a movie designed to sell books, toys and games. I mean, Drizz't/Icewind Dale and Dragonlance is pretty much hero/savior route anyway; Drizz't and Raistlin pretty much are on the par with BG's protagonist for importance.

 

[steeldragons]

The Party
"Joe Fighter": Human, Male. Not-quite-but-almost/to some Leading man looks. The guy who will be leading the troupe but not, necessarily, the main protagonist (I'll leave that to script developement. I wouldn't go "farm boy with a sword", a bit more obviously trained/experienced...a solider "background/backstory" for sure. But far from royalty or a Scorpion King/Warlord master-of-all-he-surveys type guy.

He's...not so much "brooding" as "smoldering" with some hardship(s) from his past. Start the movie in some "well fitting" [wink wink] leather armor. Shield. Long Sword. Dagger on the belt. Basic/simple/"soldier's" helmet. Definitely "built" and muscular, but not necessarily "huge/large" body builder type...again, not a Scorpion King or [Arnold] Conan.

Recommendations for casting: Channing Tatum, Chris Pratt,...Luke Evans? OO! Ben Browder!

"The Rogue/Thief": Dwarf, Male. Brazen, irreverent, and a little crass. Offering some comic relief and good/sharp (maybe a little biting at times) one liners, but also often serves as the voice of caution/reason. Very much the "battle and combat are for those not bright enough to avoid it" type. In the adventure game for the treasure and not ashamed to say so. Much more a stealth and trap-detector/diffuser than a pick pocket or back stabber...but easily capable of either. Enjoys playing the reasonable mediator while "Joe Fighter" and "Sonya" play the intimidating muscle.

He's observant, always watching/paying attention without attracting any himself until he needs/chooses to...seen often in backgrounds and shadows, without necessarily being needed in a given scene/situation. Street smart. Very much the "Been a pauper. Been a prince...I like prince better" type. An accent, for sure...but preferably not a Scottish one (as much as I personally enjoy the trope, it will be seen as much to "copying LotR" by non-D&D people). Dressed in leathers. Medium to Dark(ish) hooded grey cloak (often worn up). Fights with a hand crossbow, has a "large dagger/short sword" for general hand-to-hand, but would much rather throw knives that he seems to have secreted everywhere on his person. Lock picks, obviously, also hidden somewhere on his person (I'm going to vote for in [somehow] his beard ...and in some dramatic moment/battle, a small knife/punch blade built into his belt buckle. Go reddish/ginger to auburn in the hair, typical ruddy dwarvish skin.

"Sonya Fighter": Human, Female. The "speaks with action" type. Sneers and dirty looks more than words. Can be attractive but not in the blond-barbie "princess beautiful." She's a woman who's been around and seen a lot of horror and hard times. Exudes experience and confidence, a definite mercenary vibe. Armor is a bit heavier than what Joe or the dwarf wear (some shoulder plates, metal plate bracers or greaves, etc...). Sword of choice is, maybe, a scimitar or cutlass-looking thing (for punching with the handguard) for a different cultural look to her character.

Female, "hardened" Fighter is dark-haired, strong jawed, obviously fit (without overtly muscled) bodied. Wears a chain shirt and, as noted above, some piecemeal plates here and there. Has her (preferred weapon) sword, a short bow, hand axe (for throwing or backup melee) and dagger. She doesn't intimidate...certainly not by men. Her heart is hard, in it for the money, and battle which she obviously "enjoys"...the cause of this hardness and how it [will] softens throughout the story is, again, left for script to work out.

Recommendations: women are tough...especially someone like this who will shine in the battle sequences but needs to be believable and good BECAUSE they are probably not getting a lot of dialogue. Olivia Wild? Maybe Zoe Saldana? Someone with a little/indescribable "ethnic" to them...I keep thinking Mila Kunis, but I think she's too "mega-glam/universal beauty" now to pull off the kind of "salt of the earth" character I'm envisioning...or go for some complete no name with the chops to become a new up'n'comer. Claudia Black.

These compatriots, who are all in a tavern, counting their copper pieces, looking for work.

Add to this:
Elf Guy: Elf, Male. A fighter who knows a bit of magic, kinda like...an Eldritch Knight/BECM "Elf"...maybe even play it up as "sword as arcane focus" and have him be a little "Bladesingerish" with his spells/magic being used through/from his sword? But DEFinitely more 'warrior" than "wizard." Devoted to his role as "bodyguard" charged with the safety of...let's say his sister (though we may not know that for a while), to get some family dynamics in there. That never hurts a story. Not terribly concerned, right away, with anyone else beyond their survival necessary for their mutual defense/success. Maybe comes off a bit haughty or pitying of non-elves...as one would deal with children...but is never purposely "rude."

He's an elf. He's lovely/handsome/hot. He's toned. Youthful looking taht belies his advanced years (brought up in conversation somewhere). Some light-looking chain beneath rich green or violet tunic. Silvery grey hooded cloak. Has a bow but prefers to use his sword. Has a dagger or two if needs be. I'd go with lavendar/violet eyes and a luxurious platinum blond, ashen blond, or maybe a richer darker "goldenrod" or "wheat" blond. Should come off much more as a Haldir than a Legolas (from their accoutrement, not looks! Looks should still be Legolas. ) .

Recommendation: ummm...Matt Bomer, Jacob Young...uhh...Colton Hayes...Zac Efron (might be too bulked up nowadays)? Someone of that kind of fit/toned build without being "bulky"...narrower shoulders than whoever "Joe Fighter" is. Whoever it is, you need good cheekbones, "chiseled" features, narrowing jaw line/chin (that in mind, Matt Bomer might be too broad in the jaw), large attractive eyes. Clean shaven/hairless looking, of course.

"Mercion/Aleena": Human, Female. Cleric. Yes, I'd go there. Lovely to behold but in a "pure" way. Kind. Thoughtful. Compassionate...in armor with a mace for undead and head smashing. A holy symbol on tunic or amult around the neck and doesn't shy away from "calling down" her deity's divine justice [i.e. casting clerical spells, for healing predominantly, but I'd show a few protectives or a Bless or two...more depending on the amount of undead and/or demons/devils the script features]. A sincere desire to be helpful...even if not necessarily asked for or desired. Maybe a little clumsy. Gets into it at some point or repeatedly butts heads with "Sonja's" hit-first mentality. This can lend to some fun moments for the audience (and other party members) when she gets really Sonya-esque "forceful/no nonsense" when dealing with evils/undead. "Goddess guide me!" MACE BASH takes off a skeleton head. "Find thy wicked ways back to the Abyss!" MACE BLOCK, ANNIHILATE WITH HOLY LIGHT POURING FROM YOUR SYMBOL. Party watches as four skeletons fall to little dust piles on the ground. Cleric closes her eyes and whispers a prayer of thanks. Removes disheveled hair from face. Turns back to the warriors, "I'm so sorry. You were saying?" Slack jaws.

Blond, "typical beauty." Her easy going and kind demeanor and "healer" nature causes (at some point) a surprise. Wears chain/plate-ish, I'd go the whole nine and give her the yellow tunic and white hooded cloak, a la the 80's action figure. Maybe even the "staff-mace", like she had, instead of a normal single handed one.

Recommendations: Michelle Williams comes to mind. Kate Bosworth...She needs to be "pretty" and "sweet/innoncent" looking. Not sultry or sexy.

"Mage": Human, male...not sure how this all fits in yet...but needs to be there...and not just "Oh, the Big Bad is an evil wizard/warlock/magic-guy". I am SO SICK of the fantasy trope of the "bad guy" being the one with powerful magic. This is D&D dammit!

Orrrr, go Elf/female and make this the male elf's sister....who can fall for Joe Fighter...or someone else...and do the whole Laurana/Gilthanas/Tanis triangle thing from Dragonlance. OOOOOR, go Game of Thrones, make the mage the male elf and the female elf/sister the fightery/bodyguard one.

Who the mage character is, what they're doing, and where they come in needs more thought. We'll hold that off til later.

How the cleric fits in/is doing there...whether it is their quest form their temple/deity...or the mage's or one or both of them are encountered along the way...or whatever is all up for debate.

 

[Jester David]

As far as the idea that you can't do "D&D" as a movie, I would point to several popular movie titles that have certainly started with less. Pirates of the Carribean is based on a, what, ten minute Disney World ride. Disney's taking another swing at the cat with Tomorrowland. Not sure how well it's doing, but, it's certainly being tried.

Tomorrowland bombed.
As did Country Bears, and Mission to Mars. Haunted Castle did better, but only overseas and didn't really have the positive response of Pirates of the Caribbean.
Similarly, Battleship bombed but Ouija was a surprise hit (But it was made for $5 million, so it was easy to get its budget back). Expect the sequel next year.

D&D has a mountain of built in flavour to use. No, it really isn't "generic fantasy" and, as proof of that, I point to how hard it is to actually mold D&D around existing fantasy worlds. D&D does a terrible job of Tolkien's Middle Earth. Trying to do Game of Thrones in D&D is an exercise in frustration. So on and so forth.

Much of that is as much a problem with the rules than the lore. It's not that you can't flavour D&D to be more Lord of the Rings, it's that the magic and mechanics don't mesh as easily.
A different magic system doesn't prevent other books and stories from being called "Tolkien rip-offs". Willow at its release was derided for stealing from Tolkien. And D&D did steal liberally from JRR. And lots of other places. D&D wears its inspirations on its sleeve, and doesn't try to hide how unoriginal much of it is.

IMO, that's how you differentiate a D&D world franchise. It's not just a Medieval world with a bit of magic, it's a Magic World set in a medieval period. Dragon born were mentioned earlier. Why the heck not? That's a purely D&D race, one of the very few. I'd expect to see Dragonborn in a D&D movie. Easy action figures and they look cool. And you have the added bonus of not being another Tolkien rip-off.

I mean, if you do the typical setup with an elf, dwarf and halfling, it's too derivative. All the "standard" D&D races are yanked straight from Tolkien. Why not actually use D&D races in a D&D movie? Main guy is human, but, his buddy is a dragonborn. What's the problem?

Focusing a little more on the D&D races (dragonborn, tiefling, half-orc) would be a good idea, as would downplaying any halflings. Casting dwarves and elves in different roles would also help, such as a dwarf wizard or elf rogue.
But then you risk making the world a little Star Wars where things are strange and unfamiliar and there's lots of strange creatures everywhere.

It's still tricky as there's less of a "hook" to sell people on the movie. "Based on the game" doesn't get people into seats, not anymore than "From the producer of the Lego Movie" or "from the studio that brought you XXX". Swapping the appearance of the "plucky comic relief" from a short, unlucky dwarf to a large dragonborn barbarian won't change the story from being generic.

 

[delericho]

Mostly because it works.

Sure, I can't deny that they work. They're just over-used.

Plus, they're not really a D&Dism - although some few of the D&D novels (video games, etc) have the fated hero, it's very unusual for a D&D campaign to feature the same. Both because it's risky tying your plot to one PC who may well die, and also because it's a group game and so not too wise to spotlight one character so much.

 

[casterblaster]

I haven't read every single post but I have read most. IMO, I remember seeing the trailer for The Scorpion King and got excited when I sway the Rock swinging a sword around like Conan. I hated that movie once I saw it. It had too much comic relief infused in it. It could have been a good, not great, fantasy movie. It frightens me that some of you want this movie to be light hearted or funny or whatever. That is why I didn't like all the other DnD movies among other reasons. We are long over due a mature fantasy movie. Game of Thrones is doing it right. I want it gritty and dark. I also agree they should have adapted a Drizzt book. I know a lot of people who have never played DnD but have read those books. It needs to stay away from campy in jokes. The Watchmen would be an ideal model to follow if a party of hero's has to be used.

 

[Lalato]

I'm telling you guys... A heist movie. The only D&Dism that needs to be in there is a brief scene with the statue from the 1e AD&D PHB. The characters can be funny AND heroic. Instead of saving the the world/universe... the heroes accidentally save the village or town... and still get away with the heist. In this way, the movie represents low level D&D. Sequels could represent higher levels.

And I think a wrap scene with D&D players and miniatures would be the only full on comedy you need. The movie itself should play it straight... and above all else the movie should be fun. Just like D&D is fun.

 

[Remathilis]

Sure, I can't deny that they work. They're just over-used.

Plus, they're not really a D&Dism - although some few of the D&D novels (video games, etc) have the fated hero, it's very unusual for a D&D campaign to feature the same. Both because it's risky tying your plot to one PC who may well die, and also because it's a group game and so not too wise to spotlight one character so much.

The problem is D&D the Game Experience makes for a rather bad movie. The best example is the Avengers. Imagine for a moment seeing the Avengers without seeing ANY of the Phase 1 Movies before it. That's pretty much every D&D party I've ever seen; a group of fully-formed heroes with an unimportant backstory and their own unique goals all gather to stop a giant problem (complete with magical MacGuffin) and save the world. Most D&D campagins don't care that Grundar was in the Orc Wars or the Aliza learned magic at the Tower of Wizards or that Rieston's great grandmother used to sleep with dragons unless its important to the current story (which in D&D its not because as you said the plot has to be fairly static enough it can survive starting with one group of players and ending with a very different one). So you end up with with a moment where any six superheroes could stop Loki's plan (it doesn't matter that its Cap, Iron man and Hulk or Superman, Wolverine, and Spider-man) which isn't going to fly as a movie.

While D&D needs a party dynamic, it needs a hero first. Someone to focus around. A Luke Skywalker or Aragorn. Then everyone else fills in the sidekick roles (the spunky heroine, the wing man, the mentor, the strong one, the roguish hero, etc) D&D has three strikes against it, now is not the time to experiment. It needs a solid first try, THEN it can deviate from the formula.