D&D (2024) What would be the path between Wildshape Templates and Use an Beast statblock?

[DavyGreenwind]

Here's a possible in-between: You get to pick 6 or 7 wildshapes as found in the PHB index (and no, nothing would need to be removed for an index--you just make the book bigger like they are doing with the MM), and their attack bonus, damage, and AC scale with level. Moon Druid can have special goodies, like you can make the beast one size larger or smaller than on its stat block. As in the playtest, you don't get bonus HP, you just keep your own HP. And that's it. You're good to go. If spells can fit in the PHB, then we can have a few beast statblocks (which, by the way, can be used by other classes as stat blocks for animal companions, familiars, or other summons).

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

The problem with templates, is that building your own statblock is tedious, let alone 6 or 7 statblocks. With pre-generated, unique statblocks, you just pull it up, use your own mental scores and HP, and you're ready to go.

But you're not "building a stat block," let alone 6 stat blocks. You have 1 stat block, no matter if you are a wolf or a bear or a dire weasel. It always scales with you at every level. The stat block itself only changes when you level.

Otherwise, the only thing that changes is you picking a couple special abilities that reinforce what you want to accomplish during that Wildshape, and that would be obvious because that is the reason you are Wildshaping.

• You want to Wildshape because you want to do lots of damage, or want accuracy in combat? You pick from several attack options like pounce, pack tactics, trample, or a poisonous attack, depending on what you need at that moment.
• Want to run fast? You're choosing an enhanced movement speed option.
• Want to swim? You're picking a swim speed option.
• Want to be more survivable? Pick a skirmisher-style ability to avoid OAs, or tougher hide for better AC, or something like that.
• Want to shoot webs or use some other ability that debuffs or otherwise helps in combat? Pick it.

 

[mamba]

My hope is that they lock in the CR (instead of having it go up at higher levels) and then you add capabilities to those creatures as you level up, with Moon Druid getting a bigger list. So at early levels, your wolf is just a wolf, but at higher levels it's larger, does more damage, etc. Or a horse that can eventually fly, that sort of thing.

how is that not a template with a fixed identity....

 

[mamba]

The only real compromise is to offer both, I do not see a mashup that makes both sides happy.

 

[Clint_L]

I guess our votes will be cancelling each other. I vastly prefer a revised template option and will continue to 0-rate anything that supports Monster Manual scraping.

In which case status quo wins...

 

[Clint_L]

But you're not "building a stat block," let alone 6 stat blocks. You have 1 stat block, no matter if you are a wolf or a bear or a dire weasel. It always scales with you at every level. The stat block itself only changes when you level.

Otherwise, the only thing that changes is you picking a couple special abilities that reinforce what you want to accomplish during that Wildshape, and that would be obvious because that is the reason you are Wildshaping.

• You want to Wildshape because you want to do lots of damage, or want accuracy in combat? You pick from several attack options like pounce, pack tactics, trample, or a poisonous attack, depending on what you need at that moment.
• Want to run fast? You're choosing an enhanced movement speed option.
• Want to swim? You're picking a swim speed option.
• Want to be more survivable? Pick a skirmisher-style ability to avoid OAs, or tougher hide for better AC, or something like that.
• Want to shoot webs or use some other ability that debuffs or otherwise helps in combat? Pick it.

For a LOT of druid players, the class fantasy is transforming into animals, not a pick and choose template. The template option is just going to keep being downvoted, no matter often it gets repeated. It's not about optimization, it's about how people see druids.

I feel like a lot of folks are just talking past each other on this issue. There's a lot of "this would be better because..." vs. "that's just not what I want to play." I don't see the former convincing the latter because they are really arguing about two different things.

 

[Parmandur]

I think it was mentioned that the Druid is getting another pass with a revision to Wildshape (and Moon Druid) that's between the old Use a Creature statblock and the template approach that were both in previous UAs.

Could it be the template options, but you may use a low CR statblock as well?
Or a scaling template but you can you the movement, attacks and special abilities of a beast of a certain CR?

The simple solution seems to me to be keeping the choice rules more or less the same, but with some generic stat blocks in the Class description as options. Retains all the current freedom, but gives a fast basic solution available if desired.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

There really is no compromise there, so they will just revert to 2014. Nothing like someone wanting to play a class and you hand them a completely different book and tell them to read through it.

 

[darjr]

Couldn't a stat block be a defacto template? Just provide some in the list. Maybe tweak it a couple times as examples?

 

[Parmandur]

Couldn't a stat block be a defacto template? Just provide some in the list. Maybe tweak it a couple times as examples?

Yeah, I thinknsome sort of optional, easily parsablr.optin like that is ideal: allows people to continue being clever with Beast stat blocks, but gives a simple path for the analysis paralysis prone.