What would happen if all the Demon Lords and Devil Lords were killed?
- Thread starter TrueSpade
- Start date
Well it depends also on the who.
For example if a PC takes out the Demon Princes and the Lords of the Nine, he's liable to either collapse the planes potentially throwing the cosmos out of whack for some time, ascend to godhood as lord of a united underworld, or spend the rest of eternity lording it over the celestials and good deities since they accomplished more than the entire good pantheon ever did.
If an NPC does it odds are he probably got blown to smithereens doing it or became the new devil prince.
A god or celestial could never accomplish this because they lack the will to truly disrupt the status quo.
If a PC type wiped out the hierarchies of hell and the abyssal oligarchy, without wiping out both planes entire, or taking over and conquering the multi-verse whole, it would lead to not only a bout of fierce bloody infighting as detailed above, but a dramatic re-evaluation of the way mortals are perceived by outsiders. Several factions would even be likely to slate the material world the PC originated from for destruction in order to prevent such an upheaval form happening again.
For example if a PC takes out the Demon Princes and the Lords of the Nine, he's liable to either collapse the planes potentially throwing the cosmos out of whack for some time, ascend to godhood as lord of a united underworld, or spend the rest of eternity lording it over the celestials and good deities since they accomplished more than the entire good pantheon ever did.
If an NPC does it odds are he probably got blown to smithereens doing it or became the new devil prince.
A god or celestial could never accomplish this because they lack the will to truly disrupt the status quo.
If a PC type wiped out the hierarchies of hell and the abyssal oligarchy, without wiping out both planes entire, or taking over and conquering the multi-verse whole, it would lead to not only a bout of fierce bloody infighting as detailed above, but a dramatic re-evaluation of the way mortals are perceived by outsiders. Several factions would even be likely to slate the material world the PC originated from for destruction in order to prevent such an upheaval form happening again.
the Jester
Legend
Most likely new demon lords (and arch-devils, etc) would arise.
Nellisir
Hero
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
If all of the evil overlords "went away", there would be a lot of fighting and new ones would arise. Any devilish incursion into the Abyss would be shortlived (and likely matched by a rise in chaos in the Hells), either being repulsed by infinite hordes of unrestrained demonic cannon fodder unleashed from the lower depths, or by the corruption of the devilish forces by the chaotic nature of the Abyss itself. The powers of greater good would probably stir things up too, but ultimately everything would be pretty much as it is now, and the whole thing would become an Interesting Piece of History.
If all of the evil overlords "went away", there would be a lot of fighting and new ones would arise. Any devilish incursion into the Abyss would be shortlived (and likely matched by a rise in chaos in the Hells), either being repulsed by infinite hordes of unrestrained demonic cannon fodder unleashed from the lower depths, or by the corruption of the devilish forces by the chaotic nature of the Abyss itself. The powers of greater good would probably stir things up too, but ultimately everything would be pretty much as it is now, and the whole thing would become an Interesting Piece of History.
RUMBLETiGER
Adventurer
There would be Pease in the Multiverse... and no more adventures, Evar.
...ok no, seriously, not much would change. As already stated above, others would step in to fill the void. Because:
1- Desire for power is in the nature of most sentient creatures.
2- There would be an opening in the leadership structure amung the other demons. For the prupose of the system continuing, someone would been to fill in. Even Chaotic Evil can't handle Anarchy.
3- There would be an opening in the geography. If ever the demons were eliminated, there are still these landmasses of layers that would be uninhabited. Nature Abhors a vaccuum, someone would move into the space
4- The multiverse alignments demand Chaotic Evil to be balancing the rest of the Planes. If you remove the Chaotic Evil leaders, creatures or an entire plane itself, what havok would you inflict upon the entire Multiverse!?
5- Pesky adventurers are always poking their noses everywhere, somebody's bound to mess up the peacefulness somehow.
...ok no, seriously, not much would change. As already stated above, others would step in to fill the void. Because:
1- Desire for power is in the nature of most sentient creatures.
2- There would be an opening in the leadership structure amung the other demons. For the prupose of the system continuing, someone would been to fill in. Even Chaotic Evil can't handle Anarchy.
3- There would be an opening in the geography. If ever the demons were eliminated, there are still these landmasses of layers that would be uninhabited. Nature Abhors a vaccuum, someone would move into the space
4- The multiverse alignments demand Chaotic Evil to be balancing the rest of the Planes. If you remove the Chaotic Evil leaders, creatures or an entire plane itself, what havok would you inflict upon the entire Multiverse!?
5- Pesky adventurers are always poking their noses everywhere, somebody's bound to mess up the peacefulness somehow.
WarlockLord
First Post
Well, here's how I'd handle it.
I'd have it be one guy who killed the demon and devil lords to unite all evil under one banner.
In practice, there'd probably just be a lot of infighting until a new lord arose.
I'd have it be one guy who killed the demon and devil lords to unite all evil under one banner.
In practice, there'd probably just be a lot of infighting until a new lord arose.
Basically it comes down to what the DM wants to happen.
For example I might postulate that with the devils and demons gone from the multiverse that law and chaos take up the slack. Slaadi and Inevitables rush to colonize the weakened abyss and hells respectively. The good-neutral gods start factionalizing now that they're no longer threatened by their primary enemies they have a chance to catch up on their grudges with each other.
Gods of the wilderness start telling the gods of progress to slow down, traditional gods of magic try to quash knowledge of artifice, Corellon hares off to take out Gruumsh now that he has free time to devote to personal vendetta's. The drow are left without their magic or extra-dimensional allies, and forced to flee ever higher to avoid the mindflayers and aboleths who desire ever more potent thralls. This pressure builds underground and starts forcing dozens of underdark races to the surface since the drow no longer restrict the rising tide of aberrations.
Bereft of their demonic patron Gnolls feel the bloodlust ebb and loose some of their edge. They are forced to seek succor from their traditional enemies in order to survive.
Dozens of cultists across the prime material lose their powers, leaving room for criminals, and shadow governments to expand their reach.
The most vile or delusional seek out remnants of the fallen gods and demi-dieties hoping to ascend to the empty spots in the cosmos.
For example I might postulate that with the devils and demons gone from the multiverse that law and chaos take up the slack. Slaadi and Inevitables rush to colonize the weakened abyss and hells respectively. The good-neutral gods start factionalizing now that they're no longer threatened by their primary enemies they have a chance to catch up on their grudges with each other.
Gods of the wilderness start telling the gods of progress to slow down, traditional gods of magic try to quash knowledge of artifice, Corellon hares off to take out Gruumsh now that he has free time to devote to personal vendetta's. The drow are left without their magic or extra-dimensional allies, and forced to flee ever higher to avoid the mindflayers and aboleths who desire ever more potent thralls. This pressure builds underground and starts forcing dozens of underdark races to the surface since the drow no longer restrict the rising tide of aberrations.
Bereft of their demonic patron Gnolls feel the bloodlust ebb and loose some of their edge. They are forced to seek succor from their traditional enemies in order to survive.
Dozens of cultists across the prime material lose their powers, leaving room for criminals, and shadow governments to expand their reach.
The most vile or delusional seek out remnants of the fallen gods and demi-dieties hoping to ascend to the empty spots in the cosmos.
Aside from the aforementioned change in management, there's a lot of things that could change.
Primarily, there's a possibility that the Blood War could end in a detente. It's been hinted that it was artificially created. Of course equally compelling is that the Blood War gives Demons and Devils targets other than each other to fight, thus maintaining their respective civilizations (such that they have) in a state other than implosion.
But other targets could serve that purpose just as well. Like the Material plane. Perhaps the war was only to keep the other one from getting to it first, so if either side falls, we're next.
Yugoloths don't count because, logically, if they had the power to stand up to either side they'd do it, and if they had the power to make a play for the material while the other two were distracted by each other, they'd do it.
Or celestia could be a target. Imagine if all the clerics suddenly went through a draught because their gods and demigods are spending all their power fighting off archdevils and demon lords. Infinitely.
In planescape it's been implied the Blood War keeps the demons from invading Sigil. This, for the uninitiated, is a city whose very doors lead to every plane and demiplane that exists. The reason you don't see demons all the time on the material is because they can't just pop over whenever they want. If they had a door from the Abyss to the Material by way of Sigil they'd just make a queue.
Or maybe the other way around. Maybe the celestials would see this as a sign of weakness and attack. Seems a little less likely but not impossible. The question then is 'what would happen if all the demons and devils were killed'?
Can you really kill an outsider? I've heard they just dissolve and form a completely new outsider. Perhaps it would just add Celestia into the Blood War.
Something would change though. I feel like the lords and archs are the ones keeping things as they are. But you have to think of one more thing: Who killed all of them? And what do THEY want? Because if they can pull that off, they are definitely a party to consider.
Primarily, there's a possibility that the Blood War could end in a detente. It's been hinted that it was artificially created. Of course equally compelling is that the Blood War gives Demons and Devils targets other than each other to fight, thus maintaining their respective civilizations (such that they have) in a state other than implosion.
But other targets could serve that purpose just as well. Like the Material plane. Perhaps the war was only to keep the other one from getting to it first, so if either side falls, we're next.
Yugoloths don't count because, logically, if they had the power to stand up to either side they'd do it, and if they had the power to make a play for the material while the other two were distracted by each other, they'd do it.
Or celestia could be a target. Imagine if all the clerics suddenly went through a draught because their gods and demigods are spending all their power fighting off archdevils and demon lords. Infinitely.
In planescape it's been implied the Blood War keeps the demons from invading Sigil. This, for the uninitiated, is a city whose very doors lead to every plane and demiplane that exists. The reason you don't see demons all the time on the material is because they can't just pop over whenever they want. If they had a door from the Abyss to the Material by way of Sigil they'd just make a queue.
Or maybe the other way around. Maybe the celestials would see this as a sign of weakness and attack. Seems a little less likely but not impossible. The question then is 'what would happen if all the demons and devils were killed'?
Can you really kill an outsider? I've heard they just dissolve and form a completely new outsider. Perhaps it would just add Celestia into the Blood War.
Something would change though. I feel like the lords and archs are the ones keeping things as they are. But you have to think of one more thing: Who killed all of them? And what do THEY want? Because if they can pull that off, they are definitely a party to consider.
RUMBLETiGER
Adventurer
Ohhh.... yeah, there is that.
Jack Simth
First Post
Depends on the edition, and how the outsider got to where it is.
In some, you can't really kill an outsider unless you kill it on it's home plane.
In the rest, you can totally kill an outsider... unless it was Summoned (as opposed to Called, Teleported, or any other non-Summoning way of travel, just about) in which case it reforms on its home plane 24 hours later, or if it got there by way of Astral Projection, in which case you didn't destroy its real body any it simply wakes up immediately (note: Nightmares are a pain to get rid of).
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