What would it look like?

[Brother MacLaren]

Ok why dont you stop the next "average" person you meet and explain to them how nanotech is used to measure the mass of individual molequles. Explain to them string theory. Explain to them the rosenburg principle in quantum physics. See if that seems like magic to them. Hell I consider myself a fairly smart guy, but the more i see of quantum physics the more i think that it is magic. There are things that they have proved now that would have violated the laws of physics 30 years ago....50 years ago.

I'm just saying that there's a chance that some things will never be possible. There is quite a lot we will accomplish in the future, but it is also true that science is not magic. It is limited by fundamental laws of the universe, some of which I think we have gotten right. And if the fundamental laws of the universe do result in it being impossible to travel faster than the speed of light, or travel back in time, then no amount of engineering will change that. Magic, however, can break all the rules.

Teleport I'm unsure about. I know that quantum mechanics *does not* transfer directly to the macroscopic level - that was Schroedinger's point with the cat.

When we've been able to accomplish what was previously thought impossible (Goddard and his rockets), it was because the previous makers of conventional wisdom were wrong (the NY Times editorial board, in that case). I don't think it's true that all of our current theorists are as badly wrong as their predecessors. I think some of them have gotten some of the laws right, so we can't count on accomplishing the impossible quite as much in the future.

 

[doghead]

Interesting thoughts.

Essentially, given the XP system, is the only way that our city can support all these classed characters at these high levels through open conflict? And if so, just how lethal is the world?

As I understand it, there are other ways of earning XP, though combat is one of the most common for adventurers. Thus it is possible that for the NPC classes to advance without having to engage in a lot of fighting. PC classses also.

I don't think that all the PC classed individuals in the city are primarily adventurers either. Some may have been, or have done so at some point. But if you consider this analogy - entrepeneuralism is the fastest way to make big bucks. It also carries significant risks. Most people are not entrepeneurial. They choose a safer path, or after some iniatial risk taking, settle down onto a safer path. Most people are fairly risk adverse. Applying this to Brother MacLaren's 1 in a 1000, a proportion of the dropout rate could be accounted for by those choosing to give up the adventuring path.

Then again, the Monster Manual actually gives us some clues. For all the non-abberation, non-outsider creatures and races to be viable, there would have to be a fair sized population of each. As most of these creatures are carnivorous, there must be a lot of competition amongst primary and secondary predators; this suggests either a heck of a lotta slow, easy to catch herbivores with a very high reproductive rate or a state of near constant warfare between both species and cultures.

In the Real World (Medieval version) something like 90% of the populace was involved directly in agriculture, mostly in small, rural communities. But with a world this vastly dangerous, such small villages would be nearly suicidal. Would fields have to be walled it? Would humans (and, by extension, elves, etc.) have switched over to a nearly carnivorous diet? Would haunch of hobgoblin be considered acceptable viands?

Enquiring minds want to know...

Not all the races have to be included, but yes, for them to be viable they require sufficient numbers, room and food. Also, the differing environments (Temperate Forests, etc) helps disperse them somewhat.

In my setting, almost all of the inhabitants live within walls. Cities, Towns, Villages, Hamlets all have them. Even without the supernatural and extraodinary races, there is enough danger from goblins, orcs, ogres, trolls, etc to keep people from building outside the walls where these creatures are present (and they are pretty ubiquitious in my setting). But agriculture remains the primary activity. Confict is not constant, but has been a factor for a long time.

But I think that the presence of the MM creatures will have an effect of the look of the setting, beyond just "there be giants in these hills".

 

[Malk]

Oh certainly Maclaren i agree with you on some points. But for one, nobody ever actualy thought that they were wrong...i mean they wouldnt have been wrong otherwise, and secondly Magic often does come with its own fundamental rules. Of course hehe i dont even know why ive gotten off on this tangent, as it is actualy off the topic of the thread. Sorry bout that.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

A nice, pre-Eberron example of a setting where the effects of magic (esp. D&D-style magic) are visible on society: Zork.

No, I'm not kidding. Zork.

Spells are extremely specific in what they can do. One certain spell is used to knead dough. Another turns purple things invisible. Yet another spell is used to make forms in triplicate, while a different (yet easily similar/confusable) spell reduces a big city to tiny ashes. Magic pervades items in the society--whether it's a magic lamp, an elven sword, a pouch of Zork Rocks (which explode when mized with cola), magical vending machines, etc. There are countless spells, able to cover countless possibilities (as long as you're able to write them all down--Zork really plays on the "fire-&-forget" aspect of magic in D&D). Magic is insitutionalized & taught at the university level--being a magic-user is a lot like being a college student going for his/her bachelors, masters, or doctorate degree.

Magic is everywhere, & a lot of the in-game anachronisms (though supposedly set in a medieval society) are explained due to magic. Society in Zork is drastically affected by the loss of magic (dough-kneading spells fail to work, forms aren't created in triplicate anymore, purple things are still purple, etc.); the return of magic is a really big deal.

It's like technology, except that there isn't different kinds of energy sources that are used (electricity, steam, wind, sun, fossil fuels, etc.)--it's all based on magic.

But seriously, look at Zork. It may be a comedic locale, but it does give you a peek at what happens when a setting is truly high-magic.