What would the ideal d20 magic system be like?

[Pbartender]

no vance. either spellpoints or skill checks. Categorized in such a way that I can easily create custom spell lists...

...Something where a high-level caster isn't limited to 4 or 6 cantrips-level effects.

An expanded version of the Black Company CS magic system - you can create almost any effect, if you have the right feats and a high enough skill modifier. So incredible flexible .

Spellpoint or skill check magic.

I just wrote a review for Magic: The Science and Art of Causing Change. It's a pretty generic skill-based magic system that lets you mix and match spell effects, and is flexible enough to do everything you guys are suggesting.

I really like it, and plan on using it as a psionics substitute in my next modern or sci-fi game I run.

 

[JVisgaitis]

A magic system is heart and soul to a fantasy world/campaign. Just like there are many ideas for great worlds, and no one of them "ideal", there are as many or more magic systems designed to fit them, not an ideal one for them all.

Very good point, but what I want is what you think would be the ideal generic based system. If that's the core system that's fine, but I'd like to create an alternative system that everyone could use.

I just wrote a review for Magic: The Science and Art of Causing Change. It's a pretty generic skill-based magic system that lets you mix and match spell effects, and is flexible enough to do everything you guys are suggesting.

Looks cool. I'll need to check this one out.

 

[A'koss]

I just wrote a review for Magic: The Science and Art of Causing Change. It's a pretty generic skill-based magic system that lets you mix and match spell effects, and is flexible enough to do everything you guys are suggesting.

I really like it, and plan on using it as a psionics substitute in my next modern or sci-fi game I run.

Hmmm, looks interesting... I'll have to check it out.

 

[dren]

I don't know about "ideal" but the best I've seen in a long time is the Black Company system, as it enables the caster to do pretty much anything they can imagine without overpowering the other aspects of the game and combat. It really encourages creativity and actively shaping the effects rather than bland pre-formed situations that if they don't fit, the magic just fails.

 

[Crothian]

I want a magic system that actually seems majestic. It can be crafted and changed from caster to caster. One mage can suprise another with new spells and powers they have invented. It can be powered by a persons bosy allowing them to risk death for devesating power. It would be more skill based since that represents true knowledge and not just levels. Weak magic could be used by any class, but the people who specialize in it like the Wizards would be unmatched in magical power.

 

[Crothian]

Do you find that freeform magic systems are more difficult for a DM to handle? Also, would you rather this be the sole solution for magic or would you rather see magic broken up into arcane, divine, and psionic?

Freeform magic is good, but it has one big problem: it relies soley on the player. So, if I have my friend MArk who just can't come up with great freeform magic ideas spontaniously play a character like Gandlaf, it won't be Gandalf. This limitation has always been a problem with the people who excel doing the freeform magic saying it is great, but the people who aren't as good saying it isn't. That was always outr biggest failure with Mage. If you want a system to have it be like, go Ars Magica.

I'd actually like arcane, divine, and psionics to be totally differnet. No crossing over of anything, have them each work mechancially different. With the mechanics the same like in d20, they don't seem dfifferent.

 

[Aristotle]

I'd actually like arcane, divine, and psionics to be totally differnet. No crossing over of anything, have them each work mechancially different. With the mechanics the same like in d20, they don't seem dfifferent.

I'd like to echo that. I love the idea of all three, but if I'm going to have all three I want them to feel different (and a little flavor text just doesn't do it for me).

I like freeform systems, but tend to play with players who don't do as well when playing in them. If I could get a more structured system that still offered a little freedom, I'd be happy. That's one of the reasons I think I'm so fond of Elements of Magic. It feels a little more free to me, but isn't so open that players are at a loss for how their characters can use the power they have.

 

[ender_wiggin]

I agree in that a spell system must be "ideal" for its setting -- each setting requires a different magic system -- even the same setting during time periods.

But for a typical DnD fantasy medium to high magic setting, here's what I would suggest.

Keep the core system, because as it stands the core system works and people are used to it. Further split the divide between the formulaic caster and the spontaneous caster. Make each have very unique abilities so that they're almost two completely different classes. I would suggest having the sorceror use spell points (or mana), and keeping the wizard on spells per day.

Flexibility, but not freeform. Imho freeform oftentimes becomes to "mushy" and not well enough defined, creating a sense of "ok, I'm a wizard. what the hell am I supposed to do? What can I do?[/i] A master list of defined spells is awesome. To create flexibility I would suggest using the AE method of heighten/diminish/laden spell. Or the psionic method of enhancing them (basically more damage die).

 

[barsoomcore]

I can't conceive of an "ideal" magic system. Any magic system is going to incline towards one interpretation of "how magic works" than another, so any magic system is going to reflect a certain "kind" of magic.

The ideal system for a voodoo-type campaign CAN'T much resemble the ideal system for a Tolkein-esque campaign, or a "Matrix"-like campaign, or a Black Company setting. How can any one system be "ideal"?

 

[barsoomcore]

And is it just me, or are dren's and Crothian's sigs having a conversation?

"Mirrors and copulation are obscene, for they increase the numbers of mankind," from Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius by Jorge Luis Borges

All this talk of perversity unsettles me