What would you do?

[DungeonmasterCal]

I had a similiar incident with a 13 year old this past weekend. My son (who is 12) had invited a couple friends over to play D&D. We ended up running SWd20 instead. I knew the 13 year old kid had never played a table top RPG, but figured he'd catch on. The kid is a Halo and Halo 2 addict. He refused to grasp that in a pen and paper game you can't do the things you do in a video game. He kept saying he wanted to just use dark side powers and kill things, but after I explained I only run heroic games and dark side characters were not allowed, he kept badgering me about running a Jedi who uses dark side powers to force bad guys to confess to their crimes, etc.

Every combat he wanted to switch weapons between rounds. He insisted on having a "sniper blaster". He kept on wanting to shoot anyone not on his "team". He kept asking why he couldn't have plasma grenades that would stick to the Clone troopers. He kept on asking if we could "reset" the game after the TPK he caused.

I try to be a patient dad. I know I fail sometimes, but that's the mark of having a 12 year old kid. But I finally had to sit this kid down and tell him, "Look. You guys failed your mission. You used bad judgement AFTER I repeatedly told you throwing a frag grenade into your own airlock was stupid. And one thing you need to understand is this; the more you badger me about doing something, the less likely I'll ever run you guys on a game again, and the likelihood of you even being invited back into my house also diminishes dramatically."

I looked at my son, who was nodding sagely. Later, I overheard him tell his buddy, "Dude. Don't get on dad's bad side. I have to put up with him when you do."

Word.

 

[Nebulous]

I had a similiar incident with a 13 year old this past weekend. My son (who is 12) had invited a couple friends over to play D&D. We ended up running SWd20 instead. I knew the 13 year old kid had never played a table top RPG, but figured he'd catch on. The kid is a Halo and Halo 2 addict. He refused to grasp that in a pen and paper game you can't do the things you do in a video game. He kept saying he wanted to just use dark side powers and kill things, but after I explained I only run heroic games and dark side characters were not allowed, he kept badgering me about running a Jedi who uses dark side powers to force bad guys to confess to their crimes, etc.

Every combat he wanted to switch weapons between rounds. He insisted on having a "sniper blaster". He kept on wanting to shoot anyone not on his "team". He kept asking why he couldn't have plasma grenades that would stick to the Clone troopers. He kept on asking if we could "reset" the game after the TPK he caused.

I try to be a patient dad. I know I fail sometimes, but that's the mark of having a 12 year old kid. But I finally had to sit this kid down and tell him, "Look. You guys failed your mission. You used bad judgement AFTER I repeatedly told you throwing a frag grenade into your own airlock was stupid. And one thing you need to understand is this; the more you badger me about doing something, the less likely I'll ever run you guys on a game again, and the likelihood of you even being invited back into my house also diminishes dramatically."

I looked at my son, who was nodding sagely. Later, I overheard him tell his buddy, "Dude. Don't get on dad's bad side. I have to put up with him when you do."

Word.

Word is right. The Dad AND the son in my case are both Star Wars aficionados (heck, i love it too, i bought all the d20 accessories and a bunch of minis). Actually, after the Midnight game the Dad was thumbing through the SWd20 book, so i can see that looming on the horizon as well. Jeesh, though, i would have thought that a 13-year old would have a little more grip on the difference between a tabletop game and a computer game.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Word is right. The Dad AND the son in my case are both Star Wars aficionados (heck, i love it too, i bought all the d20 accessories and a bunch of minis). Actually, after the Midnight game the Dad was thumbing through the SWd20 book, so i can see that looming on the horizon as well. Jeesh, though, i would have thought that a 13-year old would have a little more grip on the difference between a tabletop game and a computer game.

You'd think. My son was around tabletop games long before he ever laid hands on a video game (I never owned any until he turned 8 or so). He is fully aware of the differences. Heck...he knows the d20 rules better than some of my adult players.

 

[Thunderfoot]

I've ran kids as young as 5 through an RPG (it's kind of odd I realize, but hen you're running a bi-weekly game with a bunch of older kids and they want to know why they can't play...) The results are great though, it is trying when you are doing it, but now my son is 16 and plays with my regular group. He's a veteran player of many years beyind the scope of most kids his age and we have time that we can get together and bond over a shared intrest in D&D. THAT is why you need to try to carry on. This dad and son are have time to bond and you are helping shape that time. You are bettering the world and helping a family become tighter in a world of slipping values and crumbling homes.

Yes, as a DM you have a mission to generate players for the future, but what you are doing is paying even greater future dividends. You should lauded, not pitied! Welcome to the club my friend, you are a better man than most!

 

[genshou]

I am infinitely grateful that–10 years ago–a very nice man, who was a friend of my father, decided that he could handle letting a 10-year old into his 1st Edition game.

Look how I've grown up *sniff*. Running my own games and compiling some of my ideas in hopes of becoming an indie publisher.

 

[cmanos]

you have to remember he is nine years old. from what you say he has never been exposed to something like this before. Taking that into perspective, you would have to retool your game a bit. Talking all the time....have you been around kids much? Thats what they do. Personally I think it could be fun to run for a group of kids and show them the game I grew up with, get them away from their Nintendo's and X-boxes. Granted your expectations of the game would be drastically changed.

 

[boredgremlin]

I've ran kids as young as 5 through an RPG (it's kind of odd I realize, but hen you're running a bi-weekly game with a bunch of older kids and they want to know why they can't play...) The results are great though, it is trying when you are doing it, but now my son is 16 and plays with my regular group. He's a veteran player of many years beyind the scope of most kids his age and we have time that we can get together and bond over a shared intrest in D&D. THAT is why you need to try to carry on. This dad and son are have time to bond and you are helping shape that time. You are bettering the world and helping a family become tighter in a world of slipping values and crumbling homes.

Yes, as a DM you have a mission to generate players for the future, but what you are doing is paying even greater future dividends. You should lauded, not pitied! Welcome to the club my friend, you are a better man than most!

Ya know before i read this i was all set to say to boot the kid. But i think thunderfoot is right. Your doing a good thing and helping a family and our game. However....

Certainly talk to the dad about the game. The level of violence and the presence of other mature players might sit wrong with the father and then its really his call and not yours that boots the kid.

Then talk to the other players, having a kid in the game precipitates certain changes in the maturity level and the other players should be happy with that before you commit them to a kid freindly game.

If all this goes well then go easy on the kid, even loan him a few paperback books that you think will stimulate the right thinking. One day not too far in the future the kid might be a good players and the dad is probably the one with the real interest anyway so by accommaditing his kid a little you help expand the game his way.

No matter what give a few small talks and a couple of sessions before you really decide. The other players can be patient a few weeks and maybe it will pay off. Try and see, you dont neccesarily have to do anything drastic right away.

 

[William Ronald]

There is much good advice on this thread. However, I will add some of my observations.

We should remember that nine-year olds can be very egocentric. (This is not an insult. Rather, educators have noticed that young children often are concerned with their own needs and desires. Also, the rate of physical, intellectual, and social development among children can very widely -- just look at the kids in any middle school class.) So, they often want to send things off in the direction that they want. So, side adventures for younger members of a larger group can be one way to handle this. (Okay, this may be a bit hard to do for Midnight -- especially with the serious tone. One way to handle this came to me while reading the thread. Hunt: The Rise of Evil has some threats that emerge in dreams. Indeed, the inhabitant of Gothos think that some of the threats that appear in their world come from people dreaming on Earth. So, possibly some of the side adventures might happen in a dream state --- and the dreams could have some relevance to the larger game.) Another alternative might be to run another game -- SWD20 sounds like a good choice here -- where the young kid can be like Anakin Skywalker in The Phantom Menace.

I have gamed with young kids before, and I think that they can add a lot of imagination and fun to the table. So, keep tring what works. Also I understand there is a good introductory RPG called Those Meddling Kids which is sort of like the Scooby Doo cartoons in feel.

 

[billd91]

I had a similiar incident with a 13 year old this past weekend. My son (who is 12) had invited a couple friends over to play D&D. We ended up running SWd20 instead. I knew the 13 year old kid had never played a table top RPG, but figured he'd catch on. The kid is a Halo and Halo 2 addict. He refused to grasp that in a pen and paper game you can't do the things you do in a video game. He kept saying he wanted to just use dark side powers and kill things, but after I explained I only run heroic games and dark side characters were not allowed, he kept badgering me about running a Jedi who uses dark side powers to force bad guys to confess to their crimes, etc.

Every combat he wanted to switch weapons between rounds. He insisted on having a "sniper blaster". He kept on wanting to shoot anyone not on his "team". He kept asking why he couldn't have plasma grenades that would stick to the Clone troopers. He kept on asking if we could "reset" the game after the TPK he caused.

You know, I've been thinking back on the days when I started playing D&D and this isn't just a videogame mentality. We considered restarting things after TPKs ensued. We were kids that didn't always think out the repercussions of our actions and, when faced with the consequences, wanted a "do over"... something you see plenty of times on the school playground.

With respect to the other weapons and stuff, that's not a far cry from us either and we weren't playing RPG-based video games or first person shooters back in the late 1970s-early 1980s. His comments reflect what he knows about the genre, but ours did then too.

Similarly the 9year old who wanted to fight the Star Wars mini, we used to do stuff like that all the time because we thought it would be cool. But then, we were ALL of the same basic age and of the same basic mentality. And I think there's a lesson hidden in there.

Ideally, I'd consider teaching you son to DM so he can run the games for his friends for most of the time, with you just running an occasional adult game so they get the kid stuff out of their system while still getting a view of things to come as gamers.

 

[KRT]

We should remember that nine-year olds can be very egocentric. (This is not an insult. Rather, educators have noticed that young children often are concerned with their own needs and desires....QUOTE]

exactly! Until they reach the formal operational stage (which generally varies from 11 to 15 years of age) you will not be able to run the game at the level you are accustomed to. Preoperational stages require tangential non-linear play with plenty of looping (doing it over again with slight variations).

Maybe you could try placing a child in the party for the kid to play. Then at least the behaviour would be age appropriate. There are also a few races like pixies etc that a child could play that could be distracting but fun counterpoints to an otherwise serious adventure. I however wouldn't mix children with adults in the game unless the focus was the child and the adults were all part of the "teach through roleplaying" strategy.