D&D 4E What would you want to see in 4e?

[VirgilCaine]

The Vancian spellcasting system.

Spells shifted to a mix & match, effects-based system that scales in power, to eliminate the need for 800 different, individual spell listings. Create core spell types instead (like character classes for spells, if you will) that can be individually modified to create specific spells. So, for example, magic missile isn't a specific spell, it's a damage spell with specific mods.

Wow, this sounds like GURPS.

Sidebars discussing what the game mechanic is meant to represent and how to alter it and eliminate it with notes on what effect that will have with game play.

More insight into how to alter the system and how it works would alleviate a lot of problems with third party and homebrew crunch. Cardinal rules that should not be broken are good.

More advice on DMing highlevel play in the DMG. Basic rules like "the characters will become more powerful" and "don't simply nerf the characters abilities" should be right there in the SECTION on running high-level play.

 

[Michael Tree]

I would like D&D 4.0 to be Iron Heroes 2.0 with more magic added in.

I wouldn't disagree with that. Iron Heroes 2.0 (with better class names) combined with Arcana Evolved magic system 2.0 and fully integrated conversions of the more archetypal D&D classes (cleric, druid, bard, paladin) would be great. Then throw in a handful of flavorful magic items, which give fun additional magical powers instead of just making characters tougher.

I want D&D 4.0 to be more modular. I want it to be able to handle emulating various different RPG genres without undue stress on the system. I absolutely want a hybrid Iron Heroes / d20 Modern. A core d20 system for all types of games that meets the above criteria.

I don't especially care for this. I want D&D 4.0 to be the best darn D&D game it can be, without having to compromise a single thing to make it a generic system.

 

[painandgreed]

Steeper XP costs for going up levels.

Less feats given to characters so that making PCs and NPCs of any level is easier.

 

[kolikeos]

most of the things people mentioned above do not seem nessecery to me, in fact i don't like most of those ideas. except no rolling for hp, i hate the randomness in things that are permanent. 3.0/3.5 is good as is imo.

 

[Dragonhelm]

1.) Remove conditional feats such as dodge or point blank shot from the game. They should either work all the time, or be tied to a special maneuver.

Agreed. I don't like keeping track of all those conditions. I'd rather it be more plug-and-play.

2.) Advanced Combat: Separate the advanced tactical combat from the game. AoOs, advanced tactics such as Bull Rush, should be an add-on of the game rather than core. This would help to teach the basics of the game.

Agreed as well. My biggest gripe with 3e combat is that it's too tactical. I'd like a base system, then you could have an optional "advanced tactics" system.

5.) Fighter: Either create a feat tree that has actual high level feats or give the fighter special abilities along with the feats.

The fighter is one of those classes that just doesn't seem to have any identity, or anything that belongs just to the fighter. I think I'd at least make weapon specialization a class ability.

Spells shifted to a mix & match, effects-based system that scales in power, to eliminate the need for 800 different, individual spell listings. Create core spell types instead (like character classes for spells, if you will) that can be individually modified to create specific spells. So, for example, magic missile isn't a specific spell, it's a damage spell with specific mods.

Though I've never played SAGA, that sounds somewhat similar. I'm a bit indifferent on this one. On the one hand, if it's simpler, then hell yeah. On the other hand, I want my magic missile! lol

A similar approach taken to feats. Fewer feats that scale with level, and are modified with a solid base of options, to allow for massive customization without as much cross-referencing.

I've become a fan of True20's feat system. Taking out the prerequisites and making things simpler has been a huge help.

Scaled trees for core classes, to allow for a greater variance of abilities. The rogue's special abilities are a good example of this, though I'd take it further. This would reduce the need for PrCs (not that I don't like PrCs).

I like the idea of "ability trees" to help create variations on a theme without needing to take on a PrC. Arcana Evolved does a great job with this.

Full frontal ogre nudity.

A mechanic to encourage roleplaying. World of Darkness has vices and virtues, where you gain basically 'action points' by acting in accordance with either one. It also has a morality system where you can acquire various penalties to your character as you commit ever greater acts of evil (stealing stuff, hurting people, killing people, etc.). Perhaps not quite what D&D needs, but something ought to encourage people to roleplay a bit. I probably wouldn't need it in my game, but it'd be nice to have.

I really must say that a focus on roleplaying and adventure would be a must in any new edition, revision, or what have you. While mechanics to encourage that is fine, I think it's also important to stress roleplaying without using a mechanic. The mechanic should enhance the character's traits, not the other way around.

Get rid of spell preparation, replacing it with a system like AE's where you ready a number of spells per level, and then cast freely from them with your spell slots.

Spells readied is the best of both worlds, and would be a godsend for D&D. There's not much differentiating sorcerers and wizards from a mechanical standpoint, so why not combine them into one class with spells readied?

What I would also suggest would be to treat specialist wizards like the subclasses for psions, where they can gain bonus class skills based on the school you specialize into.

 

[Staffan]

Spells shifted to a mix & match, effects-based system that scales in power, to eliminate the need for 800 different, individual spell listings. Create core spell types instead (like character classes for spells, if you will) that can be individually modified to create specific spells. So, for example, magic missile isn't a specific spell, it's a damage spell with specific mods.

I would be vehemently against this. One of the things I like the most about D&D are the cool spells, like Mordenkainen's Magnificient Mansion or Prismatic Spray. In an effects-based spell system, you'll almost never see spells like that.

 

[caudor]

I would be happy if 4e added options that did not destroy backward compatibility with 3.5. I'd love to see my current investment in books remain useful even if I adopt the 4e rules.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

Thought I would chime in. Off the top of my head...

- Armour as DR...okay everyone says that but its worth repeating.
- Change Max Dexterity bonus for armour, have a penalty instead.
- Base Attack Bonus based on class level, not Hit Dice.
- Strength no longer gives a bonus to hit, use Dexterity instead.
- Spellcasting, have no unique class spells, simply allow certain classes access to certain spells earlier.
- Orcs lawful evil, goblins chaotic evil.
- Link save or die spells to ability damage/drain, so that a death effect would have to drain your con to kill you.
- Outsiders (and Fey) are spirits.
- Construct Hit Dice deteremined by Caster Level.
- Superior Challenge Rating and Encounter Level system - ie. mine.
- Have low and High magic campaign options.

...and don't get me started on changes to the epic rules.

Elimination of random rolled hit points.

Good idea.

Hit dice based on type. Every over creature in the game that's not using a class, uses it's type to determine hit dice. Why are players different?

What about Hit Dice based on mass (2 ft = 1 HD for humanoids) for creatures with a natural physiognomy (everything except Constructs, Fey, Outsiders and Intelligent Undead).

eg. A 6 ft. tall humanoid would have a 3 HD. A 20 ft tall giant would have 10 HD.

Creatures with 2 dimensions the same would be x1.5 (round down)...a 4 ft. tall dwarf would have 2 x 1.5 = 3 HD

Creatures with 3 Dimensions the same would be x2...an 8 ft. Beholder would have 4 x 2 = 8 HD.

Hit points from Hit Dice are the punishment you can take, whereas Hit points from Classes represent skill. Certain situations (immersion in lava, stabbed while you sleep etc.) would ignore these class based hit points.

Elimination of cross-class skills or customization of skills selected at start of character creation.

Agreed.

Perhaps every 10 skill points in a skill gives you a feat type ability? That way they are something tangible at high-level.

For the core book, minimal amount of classes and races (cleric, fighter, rogue, cleric)/(human, dwarf, elf, halfling).

I have been thinking about Classes, what about:

1. Urban

1a) Cleric (6 hp/level)
1b) Fighter (10 hp/level)
1c) Rogue (8 hp/level)
1d) Wizard (4 hp/level)

Combinations

a+b = Templar (8 hp/level)...any non-chaotic alignment, different Orders (Paladins, Blackguards etc.)
a+c = Monk (7 hp/level)...lawful alignment
a+d = Mystic (5 hp/level)
b+c = Assassin (9 hp/level)
b+d = Warlock (7 hp/level)...bit like the Eldritch Knight.
c+d = Bard (6 hp/level)

2. Rural

2a) Barbarian (12 hp/level)
2b) Druid (8 hp/level)
2c) Ranger (10 hp/level)...Pirate/Swashbuckler type.
2d) Sorceror (6 hp/level)

a+b = Beastmaster (10 hp/level)...Chaos Warrior type who takes on animal characteristics, different animal clans.
a+c = Slayer (11 hp/level)
a+d = Shaman (9 hp/level)
b+c = Hermit (9 hp/level)...westernised Monk?
b+d = Wyrd (7 hp/level)...Elementalist.
c+d = Skald (8 hp/level)

These should cut out the need for 'generic' Prestige Classes like the Eldritch Knight, Mystic Theurge etc. that are simply 'in-between' classes.

Core Races:

Human
Dragon
Dwarf
Giant
Elf
Orc
Gnome
Kobold
Halfling
Goblin

Plus half versions of each except (Human/Halfling). Half Giant = Ogre.

Make multiclassing spellcasters viable in the core mechanic.

Agreed.

 

[FireLance]

What I would really like is to have stacking spellcaster levels, a unified spells per day table tied to spellcaster level, and for class levels to give spell access and other benefits such as bonus spells per day for sorcerers and domain spells for clerics.

I wouldn't mind seeing the half-races go as well. Either that or give them distict names, cultures and traits that are not just a mish-mash of their parent races. Individual half-elves and half-orcs who resulted from haphazard pairings, no. A society of Vulcan-like "Veness" who descended from humans and elves is fine, as is a nation of Klingon-like "Rukhai" who have human and orcish blood in their veins.

I like the CR and standard weath guidelines as they are a real help to inexperienced DMs. However, to keep all the complainers quiet, it would be good to have more guidelines on how to run a fun game if you decide to deviate from them.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

* - Keep it very similar to 3.5 (switching to something funky will kinda render the rest of my ideas moot, and I'm rather happy with it as is!);

* - Alter core classes such that they each get one or two core class abilities. No, not like the Spycraft 1.0 version; a barbarian's rage, a monk's unarmed combat ability and speed, or a sorceror's casting are examples of this. Fighter would need something else besides lotsa feats, possibly some sort of super-duper weapon mastery;

* - Alter prestige classes so every one gives you a varying amount of "+1 level class ability", rather like the Aberration Cultist (name?) from a recent Eberron article in Dragon did. This lets you keep your cool abilities while multiclassing;

* - Make psionics part of the core rules.

Brad