What's a resonable price-point for entry into the RPG hobby?

[Morrus]

From the anecdotal POV, back in the 80s my group and I had *one* copy of the 1E PHB, MM, and DMG between us, which somebody brought along. So 5 of us had a zero entry fee, and didn't spend a penny on anything other than dice for a few years. 3-4 years later, some of us had a little money from part-time jobs and the like and experimented by buying a few other games, but we had well and truly "entered" by a few years at that point. So I still maintain that the cost of entry is very often zero. The book cost literally doesn't come into it; you just use someone else's.

As for whether the people in question counted as having "entered the hobby" - well, I ended up making a career out of the hobby, so I'd say that's an unqualified yes.

We just started a Pathfinder game last week. The GM bought the adventures, but there was only one copy of the Pathfinder rulebook between us, and that belonged to me. For everyone else, the entry cost was exactly zero. They turned up, they played.

 

[delericho]

Yep. My first ever game was a 1st Ed adventure where not only did the DM own the only copy of the rules but he actively discouraged others from getting their own set. That did create some problems a few weeks later when he went off to university and none of us had the rules we needed! And it was at that point that the availability of the Red Box was extremely beneficial - a low-cost box that contained everything we needed to get started and the play for a few months, and a clear progression path on to the Blue Box Expert Set that I got that Christmas.

Ever since, I've tried to follow that same pattern - a new player needs to bring nothing with them to get involved. Once they've played a few sessions then I'll encourage them to pick up a few things. Even then, I'd only recommend they pick up a PHB for D&D (and dice, of course) - for every other game we don't seem to play them often enough for anyone but the GM to pick up their own copy unless they really want to.

 

[ShadowDenizen]

Wow!
I'm glad to generate such vigrous discussion!

The GM bought the adventures, but there was only one copy of the Pathfinder rulebook between us, and that belonged to me. For everyone else, the entry cost was exactly zero.

And the availability of tools and apps (PFSRD, Mastertools, etc.) also help to lower that entry price point. But purely for the point of this thread, I was curious what people think a reasonable entry fee would be for someone who intends to actually purchase the books needed to play [and/or DM] the game. (Whether it be in Physcial or PDF/Kindle, etc.)

The ubiquity of D&D as an experience in the RPG hobby will pretty much guarantee that there will be people entering the hobby through that point in the near future. D&D will be someone's first gaming experience and the first game they will be tempted to buy. And yes, some will want to buy it off the shelves without being taken to their first game even if they are the minority. Assuming they aren't pricing themselves out of that market...

And that was my line of thinking when I started the thread.

My three-fold line of thought was:
A) What is a "Reasonable" fee to get into the hobby?
B) What is a good "Core-Rulebook" size?
C) At what point are RPG's pricing themselves out of the market?

Speaking for myself, my thoughts are...
A) Whether you like the Pathfinder ruleset or not, The Pathfinder Starter Box seemed like a ideal jumping-on point for new players, and at a relavtively decent price-point. (IE IF you'd never played an RPG before, you could access the box and start playing within a relatively short amount of time.)
B) (Full-confession, I'm a Rules-light gamer!!) I think 128 pages is a decent size rulebook to start. (Ideally, you could even go for half-that!). But Core Rulebooks do seem to proliferating in size every year. (Though admittedly, "Core Rulebooks" are often the equivalent of a DMG/PHB/MM and setting book in one- I look at "Edge of the Empire" or "Dresden Files" as an example of that.)
C) Again, speaking for me, $50 and under I can justify for a single book without too much effort; over $50, and I start to look at the tangential questions; "What are the reviews?", "WIll I actually USE this?" "Is there a video-game/DVD out I would prefer instead?", etc.

 

[Neonchameleon]

This came up in the D+D-specific forums (specifically the "Would you pay $50 for a "Standard" PHB?" thread), but I think it's worth bringing up as a general question. SO.. What's a reasonable price-point for new players to enter into the RPG hobby? (I"ll refrain from posting my thoughts until later, so as to make this an open conversation.)

For a new player? Their share of the nibbles and drink. I'd expect them to pitch in later - but they shouldn't need more to start out.

For a new table? The price of a boardgame or so. But seriously, RPGs are a pretty cheap hobby compared to ... just about anything else.

 

[amerigoV]

From the anecdotal POV, back in the 80s my group and I had *one* copy of the 1E PHB, MM, and DMG between us, which somebody brought along. So 5 of us had a zero entry fee, and didn't spend a penny on anything other than dice for a few years. 3-4 years later, some of us had a little money from part-time jobs and the like and experimented by buying a few other games, but we had well and truly "entered" by a few years at that point. So I still maintain that the cost of entry is very often zero. The book cost literally doesn't come into it; you just use someone else's.

...

We just started a Pathfinder game last week. The GM bought the adventures, but there was only one copy of the Pathfinder rulebook between us, and that belonged to me. For everyone else, the entry cost was exactly zero. They turned up, they played.

It does not surprise me you got away with that back in the 80s - 1e mostly had the rules on the DM. Only the MU really needed a PHB (the cleric damn well better be taking Cure x Wounds if they knew what was good for 'em ). Leveling up was basically rolling for HP, the thief updating their skills table, and the MU picking a spell or so (it had better be Fireball, if they knew what was good for 'em )

I am surprised you are getting away with that for Pathfinder. Given the crunch of the system, it seems like you would be spending a lot of session time leveling people up as XP accumulates.

I put this in another thread, but to me the price of entry is not that big a deal for our hobby. But the price for a group to change systems is a better measure.

 

[ggroy]

C) Again, speaking for me, $50 and under I can justify for a single book without too much effort; over $50, and I start to look at the tangential questions; "What are the reviews?", "WIll I actually USE this?" "Is there a video-game/DVD out I would prefer instead?", etc.

I always ask this question to myself, whether it is rpg books, video games, dvd/bluray movies, etc ...

I do this largely to avoid buying too much stuff that ends up collecting dust on my bookshelves after being used once (or twice). (Such as numerous 4E splatbooks and $5 bluray/dvd movies).

 

[Morrus]

I am surprised you are getting away with that for Pathfinder. Given the crunch of the system, it seems like you would be spending a lot of session time leveling people up as XP accumulates.

Leveling up happens away from the table. The SRDs and the like help, of course.

I put this in another thread, but to me the price of entry is not that big a deal for our hobby. But the price for a group to change systems is a better measure.

Yep, that's a great point. I'd agree with that!

 

[Mishihari Lord]

It kind of depends on your target customer. I'll assume we're not talking about someone recruited into an existing game because then the question is meaningless: there's no cost.

For someone who isn't a gamer in any sense buying the game without being in a group, $20 - $30. This is how I came into the game. At 10 years old I was just starting to get into wargames, saw the D&D ad, and asked for it for Christmas. For someone who isn't into games and wants to try out "that D&D thing," they're going to compare it to board games. Higher and the price seems unreasonable for something you're just trying. Lower and it must not be any good.

For someone into Eurogames or video games, $50 would be the comparative price point.

An equally important question is "How long should the introductory ruleset bet?" In my present circumstance, I'm a lot more concerned about how much time I'll have to spend on a new game before I can get to the fun part than I am about a few bucks. I'd say for a total non-gamer, 10 pages max. For a Eurogamer 30 pages. For a console video game player ... well I had a joke to make here, but this being the internet, I think I'd better refrain.

 

[Morrus]

It kind of depends on your target customer. I'll assume we're not talking about someone recruited into an existing game because then the question is meaningless: there's no cost.

That's my point. I think that nearly all new gamers are created this way.

For someone who isn't a gamer in any sense buying the game without being in a group, $20 - $30. This is how I came into the game.

I wonder how common that is. I would wager it's rare. I'd guess that the barrier to entry for a brand new gamer - the "entry level" one everyone's talking about - isn't cost. It's getting them interested in the first place.

 

[ShadowDenizen]

That's my point. I think that nearly all new gamers are created this way.

I wonder how common that is. I would wager it's rare. I'd guess that the barrier to entry for a brand new gamer - the "entry level" one everyone's talking about - isn't cost. It's getting them interested in the first place.

Well, that's a valid point, and a whole different question... {Sorry if this veers us off-topic a little, but it's worth discussing; maybe I should rename the thread "What are the barriers to entry for new players"?...}

How are new gamers (esp. younger ones) coming to the tables?
With RPG's being marketed to a decidely older/aging audeince... how is the "Next Generation" of gamers being recruited?

I applaud Paizo for their "Starter Box", and FFG for their "Edge of the Empire" starter box [though realistically both are merely lead-ins to the larger core-book.], but what other companies have "New Player Friendly" quickstart rules or starter sets?