What's a "unique being" for purposes of Gate?

[drnuncheon]

Going by a particularly flavorless, rules interpretation:

If they're the same as the entry in the Monster Manual*, you can call them with the Gate.
If you had to do something more to create their stats than just open the book, they're a unique being.

So, pretty much like Dingo said - if they're advanced in any way (i.e. have spearated themselves from the "common throng" of pit fiends), then they're unique.

* - Tarrasque excepted, of course.

 

[Thanee]

Or in the literal sense... unique is, if there is no other like it.

Bye
Thanee

 

[reanjr]

My interpretation is that by unique, they mean the creature is the only example of its race. Demon Princes, for instance, are entirely unique. Each one is a different race. The Lords of the Nine would be another example. The Dark Eight, on the other hand, are all Pit Fiends, and would have to come through.

If one of my players called one of the Dark Eight, they would be in for some serious trouble, though.

In one of the 2e Planescape supplements, it mentioned that a summoned creature (back when calling was still called summoning) could send a nearby minion through instead. This may be a good call with creatures like the Dark Eight.

[edit] A few people have mentioned templated or classed creatures. I totally disagree with a classed creature being considered unique by these standards. For one thing, Pit Fiends have been alive for probably an AVERAGE of several millenia. If taking up a level of fighter or wizard would make them immune to being gated, they all would have done it. Making the concept of a Pit Fiend fighter or wizard rather UNunique.

I could see a templated creature being immune only if it was a unique template-race combination. If you are trying to call the only tauric cow pit fiend in existence, then I say it would be immune. On the other hand, if you are calling one of the many tauric cow pit fiends that resides in the fields of Acheron calmly grazing on the souls of the damned, then it would NOT be immune.

This seems to follow the letter of the rules and also seems to be a good interpretation, IMO.

 

[Kalanyr]

I call said creatures immune simply because its far to much work for me to do, if a player Gates in a Tauric-Legendary-Wolf-Pit-Fiend-A different level 20 class, every battle.

 

[reanjr]

I think that's a fair ruling.

 

[Gez]

I think if they want a specific being (not "an osyluth" but "osyluth #678°4577M of the 13th Brigade"), then the osyluth gets a choice.

If they want a random being (any osyluth, including #678°4577M of the 13th Brigade), then the spell would just "choose" one that for a reason or another, cannot resist at that time.

It's a bit like teleport who'll send you to a similar area. Some spells act like search engines. If you stay generic enough, you're nearly sure it will work, but if you want something specific, it can fail.

Furthermore, I'd consider any advanced creature (with class levels or extra monster HD) is unique -- thus, you couldn't gate "an osyluth blackguard" since blackguards are not generic.

 

[Corlon]

I call said creatures immune simply because its far to much work for me to do, if a player Gates in a Tauric-Legendary-Wolf-Pit-Fiend-A different level 20 class, every battle.

well, when someone comes up with the idea, just get a bunch of books (it doesn't matter whether those templates are in them or not), open one up, and say "are you sure you want me to do this?"

I'm now thinking, how about no save for generic creatures from the MM, a choice for *truly* unique beings like deities, and a save with maybe a bonus for "literally unique" creatures that you call, like "Margitherzxxxx "John" Soulherder, pit fiend of the 9th level.

 

[The Amazing Dingo]

A few people have mentioned templated or classed creatures. I totally disagree with a classed creature being considered unique by these standards. For one thing, Pit Fiends have been alive for probably an AVERAGE of several millenia. If taking up a level of fighter or wizard would make them immune to being gated, they all would have done it. Making the concept of a Pit Fiend fighter or wizard rather UNunique.

At the risk of throwing it off topic, I don't think demons, devils, and extraplanars are simply able to "take class levels". Its not a choice to them that is usually open. By nature they are created to live for several eons (assuming they manage to survive). I can only imagine how often and how many demons and devils die in any given minute. A terrible majority, in my opinion, never live that long. Also, their essences aren't made to take such levels. They have to overcome that barrier somehow. In my opinion, this is usually what makes the "unique" and promoted into a true position of power and acknowledgement within the Hells or Abyss.

Back onto topic...

I think a lot might have to do with the PCs intention. If they just want a Pit Fiend to deliver a message, they'd just call any Pit Fiend...they don't care, it doesn't matter. If you want a message to get to a specific Demon Lord then any Pit Fiend should have enough savy to realize how to get it through without jeopardizing himself too much (even if he does jeopardize some lowly demon).

Gate is already powerful, it doesn't need to be anymore powerful. Why allow the players around what I think would be a great little adventure in trying to get a specific Pit Lord to come...

...just too much nastiness there to let slip by.

 

[Piratecat]

Thanks so much for the thoughts. I think that I'm going to go with the reoccurring viewpoint here: if the creature is a specific being, he isn't obligated to go.

Next question: can he send an underling through the gate instead in his place?

 

[frankthedm]

By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, you cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, willing or unwilling. Deities and unique beings are under no compulsion to come through the gate, although they may choose to do so of their own accord. This use of the spell creates a gate that remains open just long enough to transport the called creatures. This use of the spell has an XP cost (see below).

By the RAW, I think a critter would need to have Unique in the organization line [Orcus, Demogorgon, Dispater]. Named fiends of various breeds would not get a choice even if advanced. A prime reason NOT to give out ones true name. Slapping class levels on a fiend is outside of standard advancement rules so that could place the fiend in the unique category at DM's discretion. Just remember that being able to say "No." to a gate spell hints at a deity level of power.

How did they get this fiends name?

Send an underling? Nothing in the rules about it, make your choice.