Pathfinder 1E What's good what's not in PF?

Say what now? How can a paladin do that?

Also, I missed the glossary: what is rocket tag? You mean a bit luck of the draw?

Aura of Justice level 11 Paladin ability. Rocket tag just means very fast combats due to sheer damage. PF buffed power attack. Spell casters are a bit less broken than in 3.5 but the martials are more broken and the game math doesn't work so well at level 8+ or so.
 

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I've never had a barbarian player so it probably won't come up but when you say nix do you mean remove entirely?

I wouldn't. Higher level spells are far more impactual than rage powers.

As for summoning, I normally haven't seen as many problems as other say they have, but if you decide to make certain types of summons impossible, that's entirely your call.

Some people have particular grief with some summons, others with a particular class with summons. Much of that is from the APG again, which you can decide not to allow any of the options in that book, OR pick and choose which options.

If it's just summons in general, you can tailor it to the universe which you are playing in, of course.
 

Aura of Justice level 11 Paladin ability. Rocket tag just means very fast combats due to sheer damage. PF buffed power attack. Spell casters are a bit less broken than in 3.5 but the martials are more broken and the game math doesn't work so well at level 8+ or so.

That Aura of Justice is great but actually doesn't strike me as so bad due to the 2 uses and 1 min duration (although that's 10 rounds I guess). Hmmm.

Chances we'll get much past 10th are pretty small I think, but things to look out for.

I found 14th level plus got boring in 3.5 but that was as much DM prep as anything else and I'm hoping HeroLab will make that easier. What is it at 8th+ that breaks down?
 

Buffed Power Attack?!? I DM'ed 3/3.5 for 9 years and PF Power Attack is far less powerful in my estimation! The very fact that you can't control the penalty number is a huge nerf. The feat's not scalable anymore, it's either on or off. And that also means that it's no longer possible to stack lots of buffs on and then Power Attack for your entire BAB to inflate your damage to ridiculous levels.

I guess that just goes to show that PF is "YMMV" like any other game.
 

That Aura of Justice is great but actually doesn't strike me as so bad due to the 2 uses and 1 min duration (although that's 10 rounds I guess). Hmmm.

Chances we'll get much past 10th are pretty small I think, but things to look out for.

I found 14th level plus got boring in 3.5 but that was as much DM prep as anything else and I'm hoping HeroLab will make that easier. What is it at 8th+ that breaks down?

Its just lots of small thing that add up if your party is good at min maxing. I'm the DM and PF is not that much fun to run at higher levels for most of the same reasons 3.5 is not that much fun.

Paradox42 there is a feat in PF that negates the penalty for power attacking and you get a better bang for buck ratio in terms of penalty to hit vs bonus damage. I suppose if you have an insane amount of buffs 3.5 PA may be better some of the time. They also added dex to damage with scimitars and a power attack variant for high dex characters.

Don't get me wrong if you do not mind 3.5 PF should be good for you. I just stopped playing it end of last year and went to OSR type games instead.
 


Its just lots of small thing that add up if your party is good at min maxing. I'm the DM and PF is not that much fun to run at higher levels for most of the same reasons 3.5 is not that much fun.

Heh, that's part of the reason why I always start to wrap my campaigns loose threads up around 8th level or so, I detest running games above 12th level. I'd just rather start over.

Of course, that's been true of any edition of D&D.
 

Heh, that's part of the reason why I always start to wrap my campaigns loose threads up around 8th level or so, I detest running games above 12th level. I'd just rather start over.

Of course, that's been true of any edition of D&D.

More or less this. I do not mind AD&D a little bit higher and ECMI up to level 13/14 or so. I can see the appeal of E6 for 3.x games.
 

Hi there. I was a long term 3/3.5 DM who has spent the last 5 years or so playing other things (older versions of D&D, CoC, WFRP, DCCRPG etc). It's time for a change and I was thinking of PF. What I am wondering (having been browsing the SRD) is if there is anything outside of the core book (or in it I guess) I need to watch out for?

For example, I like the look of summoners but I've heard various people saying the class doesn't quite work. Things of that nature. I'm not interested in odd feat/class power gaming stuff that will almost certainly not make it to my table. More general stuff that would make the game less fun if we used it.

Any thoughts?

Pathfinder is much like 3.x, with all its good and bad points.

Because there's been another pass at the rules, core Pathfinder is a little more balanced than 3.x. But note I said a little, because little has changed. A very few spells (Grease, Mirror Image) have actually gotten more powerful when they didn't need to be.

Low-level wizards are much better (in a good way). They get a few spell-like abilities per day based on specialization (or lack thereof), so they can go longer before they have to pull out the crossbow. Conjurers are amazing, you get an acid dart several times per day. Necromancers not so much, you can just touch people to make them scared, and not even deal any damage.

Turn Undead also makes sense. You no longer need to use the chart. It's called Channel Energy now, and can be used for AoE healing too, saving the cleric a move action, as you can tell a wounded PC to come to you. On top of that, there's a feat to make using Channel a move action, so you call for the healing huddle and spend your standard action casting Doom or something that you actually want to do.

Every class gets scaling abilities, which means prestige classes lose value (since you have to give up those abilities). The abilities are thematic but not necessarily powerful.

For instance, fighters get weapon training and armor training (which give bonuses to hit and damage that stack with specialization bonuses, as well as reducing ACP and increasing max Dex, a big deal at high levels) as well as bravery, which gives tiny bonuses to saving throws against fear.

Wizards gain special abilities based on specialization (or lack of specialization, as the case may be), such as the evoker's Energy Wall at 8th-level, and sorcerers have "themes" that include warlock-flavored themes (there's fey sorcerers, infernal sorcerers, etc). I'm converting a Pathfinder adventure to 4e right now and generally convert sorcerers into warlocks, although at least one, a fire sorcerer, will remain a fire sorcerer.

Clerics are probably the only class that don't gain benefits like this, and even then Channel Energy scales with cleric levels, and you'll need to give that up if you take a prestige class. Clerics got a slight nerf (no longer gain heavy armor proficiency for free) but to me that's not significant.

Although Pathfinder has put out fewer products than 3e and 4e (given the amount of time that it has run) it's already running into bloat. There's a bunch of classes that don't add much to the game except confusion, unbalance or both. (I put summoners and gunslingers in that category.) There's no official Character Builder, but everything is in the SRD, so players have access to everything, chipping away at DM authority. If you're not a fan of bad classes, you'll be saying "no" a lot.
 

For example, I like the look of summoners but I've heard various people saying the class doesn't quite work.

I'm playing a summoner now and I think it works reasonably well enough. Eidolons can be a bit tricky to manage because there are a lot of moving parts to monitor. Failure to do so can lead to a player overbuilding one and that can get pretty powerful. Consider staying away from the archetypes for the summoner unless you can be sure your player won't abuse them. The Master Summoner, for example, can have all of his daily monster summonings in effect at once if he chooses. That can be pretty abusive in most adventuring situations (but pretty cool in a lot of non-combat scenes or mass combat situations) and can bog down play if not taken to the level of the GM narrating what most of the minions do.

It's important to note that Paizo is content to treat PF as a toolkit - including options that may be right for some campaigns and groups of players and not right for others. Some options sacrifice power for particular narrative flavors that some groups may be OK with but others won't. It's helpful to know your players well. I think the rules could use a bit more discussion of what options are engaging in those trade-offs so a GM has more guidance rather that just his own analytic acumen. But a good set of trustworthy players can ease that considerably.
 

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