D&D 5E What's Next for D&D's Campaign Settings? (And an idea/suggestion for WotC!)

[Mercurius]

Overly catering to OSR folks would be the opposite mistake WotC made with 4e, but just as much of a mistake. Where with 4e they forgot about the bird in hand by going after two in the bush, with an overly OSR 5e they would be ignoring the birds in the bush for a bird in hand.

I hate to say it, but too much focus on Greyhawk is like trying to relive a past that will never come again. I like the idea of a commemorative piece, but I just don't see much more than that. The Forgotten Realms has the strength (meaning, popularity) of its novels, in particular Drizzt, while Greyhawk has...Gord the Rogue?

 

[Nellisir]

I hate to say it, but too much focus on Greyhawk is like trying to relive a past that will never come again. I like the idea of a commemorative piece, but I just don't see much more than that. The Forgotten Realms has the strength (meaning, popularity) of its novels, in particular Drizzt, while Greyhawk has...Gord the Rogue?

Unfortunately, the main thing people seem to bring up when they talk about Greyhawk's strengths as a setting are a)it was created by Gary Gygax, and b)moral ambiguity. The first is a moot issue, and the second really doesn't translate reliably without a dedicated DM. Adventures take place on a micro scale, not a macro. I haven't got a real solution for that, either. I like both settings, but the Forgotten Realms are more mainstream and support a wider variety of adventure, much like Golarion.

I would like a tighter focus on smaller areas (ie Vale of Nentir), and if they do a new campaign setting, lose the "sea in the center" design that I feel like I've been seeing more of recently.

 

[tuxgeo]

< snip >
I would like a tighter focus on smaller areas (ie Vale of Nentir), and if they do a new campaign setting, lose the "sea in the center" design that I feel like I've been seeing more of recently.

Counterpoint: "sea in the center" is a fun idea, reminiscent of the Adriatic, Aegean, Baltic, Black, Caribbean, Caspian, Mediterranean, and Red Seas on Earth. Seas slow down the mad, nomadic hordes, and they funnel the mass migrations through narrow choke points where 300 defenders can delay 10,000 attackers. Seas help protect civilizations.

Seas also allow islands such as Evermeet, though that one's not "in the center."

 

[Yora]

I would like a tighter focus on smaller areas (ie Vale of Nentir), and if they do a new campaign setting, lose the "sea in the center" design that I feel like I've been seeing more of recently.

I've always been thinking that I like the North far more than the Forgotten Realms. I've been playing for 15 years and played more games in the North than all other games combined, and there is still such a big number of places in that region that I've never seen in a game. It's maybe just 5% of the area of the Forgotten Realms and perhaps 20 to 30% of the written down content, but this region alone is big enough to stand on its own as a complete setting.
It seems to me that people create worlds because all the other popular settings are whole worlds, or at least major continents. Though you can have very rich settings on a much smaller geographical scale, like Dark Sun or Rokugan, or the world of the Witcher, and more recently Thedas of the Dragon Age series.

Forgotten Realms may be a big continent, but who ever really played in Chult, Chessenta, or Lurien? Pretty much all the material is Dales, Cormyr, and the North, with a bit left over for Calimshan, Rashemen, and the Moonsea. At least 2/3 of the area is pretty much irrelevant filler, which is probably why they tried to remove them in 4th Edition.

 

[Klaus]

Unfortunately, the main thing people seem to bring up when they talk about Greyhawk's strengths as a setting are a)it was created by Gary Gygax, and b)moral ambiguity. The first is a moot issue, and the second really doesn't translate reliably without a dedicated DM. Adventures take place on a micro scale, not a macro. I haven't got a real solution for that, either. I like both settings, but the Forgotten Realms are more mainstream and support a wider variety of adventure, much like Golarion.

I would like a tighter focus on smaller areas (ie Vale of Nentir), and if they do a new campaign setting, lose the "sea in the center" design that I feel like I've been seeing more of recently.

Greyhawk's selling point as a setting with more moral ambiguity is actually a very good selling point. It's a setting whose Gandalf/Elminster analogue is as likely to work against the forces of Good as with them.

As for micro vs. macro, that can be turned into a feature-not-a-bug if you focus on smaller sections of the Flanaess (Sheldomar Valley, Lands of the Nyr Dyv, Northeastern Flanaess, Great Kingdom & Iron League), since each has their own distinct (and often non-European) flavor.

 

[Nellisir]

Counterpoint: "sea in the center" is a fun idea, reminiscent of the Adriatic, Aegean, Baltic, Black, Caribbean, Caspian, Mediterranean, and Red Seas on Earth. Seas slow down the mad, nomadic hordes, and they funnel the mass migrations through narrow choke points where 300 defenders can delay 10,000 attackers. Seas help protect civilizations.

Seas also allow islands such as Evermeet, though that one's not "in the center."

It's literally all about how you draw the map - or where you place it. In a European campaign, the Mediterranean, Baltic, Black, and North Seas can all be edge seas, not center - in fact, you couldn't have a map that has all of that at the center. I just find it annoying to have a large blue void in the center of the map. The Flanaess is actually not an example of this - the center of the map is Greyhawk City, more or less. Neither is Faerun. The Wilderlands -is- an example; there's a tremendous amount of blue, and the terrestrial realms are along the edge of the map. Ditto the Conquest of Nerath map.

It's a personal opinion. I've never liked or enjoyed aquatic adventures, campaigns, or sojourns. I'd rather make my players hoof it through trackless wilderness.

 

[Nellisir]

Greyhawk's selling point as a setting with more moral ambiguity is actually a very good selling point. It's a setting whose Gandalf/Elminster analogue is as likely to work against the forces of Good as with them.

Unfortunately, that's not how Mordenkainen gets portrayed. And once you introduce Mordenkainen, Tenser, or any of the others, you get accused of uber-NPCs, Elminstering, and/or railroading. Greyhawk is somehow viewed as both the "low-magic" setting, and the one with a demigod ruler and eight divinities in a prison. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

As for micro vs. macro, that can be turned into a feature-not-a-bug if you focus on smaller sections of the Flanaess (Sheldomar Valley, Lands of the Nyr Dyv, Northeastern Flanaess, Great Kingdom & Iron League), since each has their own distinct (and often non-European) flavor.

Adventures are even smaller scale. A dungeon, or a town, or a village, or a part of a city. But yes, I'd love it if they focused on the sections of the Flanaess. Sargent's work was a great step in this direction.

 

[Jester David]

Forgotten Realms may be a big continent, but who ever really played in Chult, Chessenta, or Lurien?
At least 2/3 of the area is pretty much irrelevant filler, which is probably why they tried to remove them in 4th Edition.

There's always someone. There's bound to be a couple groups that had campaigns centered on Chult or thought of as Chessenta as their baby. And with so many other places so heavily detailed, the more isolated regions could be the best places to make your own.

The trick with filler is to make it cool, not replace it. That's just lazy.

 

[Argyle King]

Unfortunately, the main thing people seem to bring up when they talk about Greyhawk's strengths as a setting are a)it was created by Gary Gygax, and b)moral ambiguity. The first is a moot issue, and the second really doesn't translate reliably without a dedicated DM. Adventures take place on a micro scale, not a macro. I haven't got a real solution for that, either. I like both settings, but the Forgotten Realms are more mainstream and support a wider variety of adventure, much like Golarion.

I would like a tighter focus on smaller areas (ie Vale of Nentir), and if they do a new campaign setting, lose the "sea in the center" design that I feel like I've been seeing more of recently.

...one of the primary reasons I enjoy running/playing Greyhawk while using a non-D&D rules system is because I feel it can be difficult to fit some of what Greyhawk tries to do (and imo does well) into the D&D alignment system; games which use something a bit more nuanced (imo) work better. While you can graft a system like that into D&D, it always feels less whole to me than if I just use a game which has things which can be tagged as character traits.

The micro scale is also something I quite enjoy; though that's also a reason I tend to use a different game system for Greyhawk. In spite of the fact that Greyhawk is one of the original settings, it seems to me that modern D&D has, over the years, evolved into something which has a different mindset and holds different design ideals than the mindset and ideals about gameplay which Greyhawk was designed around.

One of the things I like about the micro scale (if I may mention that again,) is that Greyhawk -while having some similarities to Forgotten Realms as far as being something of a generic fantasy kitchen sink designed for D&D, manages to have a somewhat distinct feel. At the end of the day, your character can be a hero by simply picking up a sword and helping to defend some local girls from being kidnapped or by helping a farmer down the road guard his livestock against some goblins; the world gives just enough of a blank map to allow you and your campaign world to grow into what you want it to be while having just enough detail to also give some ideas about what might be in those blank spots. While I do also enjoy the Realms, I feel the Realms often comes across somewhat authoritatively when it comes to deciding what's around that next corner; in contrast, I feel Greyhawk inspires rather than dictates.

In all honestly, there is not; nor has there ever been any sort of rule saying that what's in the books needs to be what's in the world; a GM of any world can change it to suit the needs of the group, and I would expect a GM to make changes if his players enjoy a different path. D&D and rpgs in general are games designed around creating your own story. Still, I feel (personally; in my opinion) that Greyhawk more naturally fosters the idea of growing the campaign into what you want it to be; making the game your own. I enjoy Realms lore, and it has inspired many ideas for me, but it often feels so full that it's hard to know where to fit in as a player character. To some extent, I do agree that Greyhawk focuses on the micro, but I like that; it's nice sometimes to have a more personal story about the adventure right down the road rather than feeling beholden to rush off across the planes and cosmos to rub elbows with the famous heroes of yesteryear.

 

[dwayne]

I for one have been from the blue box set when I was a kid to the 4th and have looked at the 5th editions, I have created 5 different settings and create my own adventures and story lines and believe that the GM has absolute control over everything and to not let a rule to get in the way of a good moment or story opportunity. That being said I for one am sick of the forgotten realms and wish they were forgotten due to the media overload and books and lore it is way overdone to the point its boring. There is no room for your own corner there is the realms lore and most who want to play there is because of this and I am a very creative GM and do not like running premade anything. Greyhawk had its lore but also had open parts close enough or areas left open enough that you could add stuff or entire nations. Yes you could do this with most settings but greyhawk had a feel to it unlike other settings the rules seemed blurred, I for one used an allegiance type system not alignment but a point type system and this dictated the loss of paladin abilities or gaining them back through role play and quests. In this way two paladins with good gods might be opposed to one another and even fight each other. As far as classes using something like the modern system would work better as some of the NPC characters were never just strait classes or like the system I am working on 3 base classes a warrior expert and caster with professions and options at every level. The combat and casting system is way off from the D&D base As there are various Defences and spells scale at every level and can be given more or less power to do different effects as well as having side effects to the spell cold can freeze and do hyperthermic damage. Almost done with it on power sources for spells right now, any way got off topic, I would love a new updated greyhawk with current information a big old map and some of the areas detailed with a race and creature book you know a campaign book a creature book and a players guide race book This would make me happy then they could just go on and pump out the realms stuff all they want