Whats the 2nd most important attribute for a Sorcerer

[Ridley's Cohort]

Wizards and Sorcerors have two achille's heels: HPs and line of sight. Addressing either weakness helps survivability disproportionately.

 

[KarinsDad]

Wizards and Sorcerors have two achille's heels: HPs and line of sight. Addressing either weakness helps survivability disproportionately.

What exactly do you mean by line of sight?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

What exactly do you mean by line of sight?

Anything that screws with the ability of a spellcaster to engage at a comfortable range (line of sight) potentially shuts him down: fog, darkness, a well-placed wall, etc. Those tactics can force the caster to risk melee in order to cast offensive spells.

So LoS is one achilles heel of the wiz/sor.

The other is raw HPs. The sorceror can't be warded against every energy attack, every AoE, every arrow, every weird ambushing critter out there. A couple unlucky pinpricks and he is one thwack or spell away from being dead, dead, dead.

My conclusion is the minmax choices for a familiar are either a toad or a bat. A toad increases HPs. A bat can provide enough information through fog and darkness that you can adequately guess where to drop an AoE spell.

 

[KarinsDad]

Anything that screws with the ability of a spellcaster to engage at a comfortable range (line of sight) potentially shuts him down: fog, darkness, a well-placed wall, etc. Those tactics can force the caster to risk melee in order to cast offensive spells.

So LoS is one achilles heel of the wiz/sor.

Line of sight works both ways. If the Wizard can see his target, his target can cast spells or fire missile weapons at the Wizard.

It would seem that line of sight is as much a problem for a Wizard as it is any major spell casting class or for any missile user and is not an inherent tactical problem for just Wizards/Sorcerers.

My conclusion is the minmax choices for a familiar are either a toad or a bat. A toad increases HPs. A bat can provide enough information through fog and darkness that you can adequately guess where to drop an AoE spell.

Hmmmm.

Not sure I agree with this.

For one thing, you cannot target a spell without line of effect at all. So, having a bat familiar still does not allow you to cast an AoE spell without the caster having line of sight to the point of origin (PHB pg. 150).

In fact, I put in house rules so that spell casters could cast AoE spells into the dark or fog or whatever. However, they have to target the location (80 feet that way or whatever) and if they miss a DC, there is a chance for the spell to target somewhere near the intended target location.

 

[Grommilus]

Hmmmm.

Not sure I agree with this.

For one thing, you cannot target a spell without line of effect at all. So, having a bat familiar still does not allow you to cast an AoE spell without the caster having line of sight to the point of origin (PHB pg. 150).

In fact, I put in house rules so that spell casters could cast AoE spells into the dark or fog or whatever. However, they have to target the location (80 feet that way or whatever) and if they miss a DC, there is a chance for the spell to target somewhere near the intended target location.

Actually, reread the info on PH pg 150. It says:

Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It's like line of sight for ranged weapons, except it's not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect (such as conjuring a monster). You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast, such as the central point of a fireball. For bursts, cones, cylinders, and emanating spells, the spell only affects areas, creatures, or objects to which it has a line of effect from it's origin (a burst's point, a cone's starting point, a cylinder's circle, or an emanating spell's point of origin).

An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell's line of effect. Such an opening makes a 5-foot length of wall no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell's line of effect (though the rest of te wall farther from the hole can still block the spell).

Hense, not being able to see your target in no way means you can't cast a spell at the target, as long as you know where the target is in relation to yourself. Also, about the 1 square foot, I'd like to mention that for a Medium size character, a wall with a 1 square foot hole is 9/10 cover, giving decent protection from most evocations (except fireball, cause it's pretty easy to target the hole with the ranged touch to cast the fireball BEHIND the wall.. which is a pain in the butt, and has killed some of my characters).

Grom

 

[Taloras]

Actually, reread the info on PH pg 150. It says:



Hense, not being able to see your target in no way means you can't cast a spell at the target, as long as you know where the target is in relation to yourself. Also, about the 1 square foot, I'd like to mention that for a Medium size character, a wall with a 1 square foot hole is 9/10 cover, giving decent protection from most evocations (except fireball, cause it's pretty easy to target the hole with the ranged touch to cast the fireball BEHIND the wall.. which is a pain in the butt, and has killed some of my characters).

Grom

Actually, if you are trying to cast the fireball through the hole, you have to hit the hole w/ a ranged touch attack, and it gets size modifiers to the to hit dc. its not always easy to hit. If you miss it, you hit the wall with the fireball.

 

[Grommilus]

(except fireball, cause it's pretty easy to target the hole with the ranged touch to cast the fireball BEHIND the wall.. which is a pain in the butt, and has killed some of my characters).

Grom
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Actually, if you are trying to cast the fireball through the hole, you have to hit the hole w/ a ranged touch attack, and it gets size modifiers to the to hit dc. its not always easy to hit. If you miss it, you hit the wall with the fireball.

As I said, it's pretty easy to target the hole with the ranged touch. Because it's only ac 7. 1 foot square hole is a tiny object (+2), but it's not moving (dex 0, -5). If your wizard thinks ac 7 is tough, you might wanna consider another profession where thinking isn't a required trait =)

Grom, he who knows how to hit things that don't move, and has played many barbarians that seemed to specialize in it.

 

[novyet]

I'd say con without a doubt. Having played a dwarven wizard for awhile, I can say that the extra HP's from my con saved me far more than AC or a reflex save bonus. Plus at first level I had 10 hp's and stayed up front with the fighters. That changed later but hey it was fun!

 

[smetzger]

I'd say con without a doubt. Having played a dwarven wizard for awhile, I can say that the extra HP's from my con saved me far more than AC or a reflex save bonus. Plus at first level I had 10 hp's and stayed up front with the fighters. That changed later but hey it was fun!

Thats a Wizard. What about a Sorcerer? I really thought that Intelligence would be 2nd for a Sorcerer. To help with skill points, Scry checks, and spellcraft checks.

 

[KarinsDad]

Thats a Wizard. What about a Sorcerer? I really thought that Intelligence would be 2nd for a Sorcerer. To help with skill points, Scry checks, and spellcraft checks.

Yes, these are important.

But, not as important as staying alive. Which is better? Making your spellcraft roll and knowing that it is a Fireball that killed you, or missing your spellcraft roll and having 5 hit points left over after the Fireball hits you?