What's the Best Fix for Power Attack?

[Arkhandus]

I don't know why you didn't include the 3.0 Power Attack version as an option on the poll (damage bonus equals attack penalty regardless of weapon used). So I voted Other.

Power attack is broken in 3.5 as-is, and it shoehorns fighters into one narrow style...... And it shouldn't be considered a requirement for effective warriors....it would be a class feature if it was, and yet 3.5 makes it basically required that all warrior-types take Power Attack and use a two-handed weapon. Whether or not someone perceives it as being the only way a fighter can be fairly balanced, it doesn't change the fact that it forces every fighter to take one very specific fighting style to do so, and makes all others inferior. It's stupid being like that. Keeping 3.5 PA overpowered isn't a solution to weak fighters, the solution would be to just make a new feat or two for each fighting style that helps out, or giving the warrior-types a new class feature that helps.

Also: two-handed weapons already have their power advantage factored into the rules, via the 1.5x Strength multiplier to damage and the greater base damage they deal compared to one-handed weapons. Power Attack does not need to over-exaggerate this and favor two-handed weapons. D&D is not the Super-Precise Reality-Simulation RPG, it uses abstracted combat, weapons, and armor.

Making PA a straight -5/+5 or the like would be tougher for low-level characters, so I don't favor it. Capping PA like CE is fine to me, though I don't think it's necessary to cap it quite like that.

I do it similarly but a bit differently for Aurelia. Power Attack is capped at -10/+10, and works like in 3.0 (no different multiplier for two-handed or light weapons), but there's a Superior Power Attack feat available that requires BAB +11 and Power Attack, which removes the -10/+10 limit for PA (though it retains the BAB limit, so PA penalty/bonus can't exceed Base Attack Bonus). I also use the Superior Expertise feat from Oriental Adventures, which works similarly for Expertise (Combat Expertise in 3.5).

 

[airwalkrr]

This is my solution too - I think if it was in the poll it would be a pretty common answer. You want to edit it in, Airwalkrr?

I would love to. I completely overlooked it. But how? A little mod action?

 

[airwalkrr]

maybe its just me, but i dont think power attack is broken, so I chose other. core fighters cant suck while while power attack is broken. Its just silly. I think the poll is misleading becuse it dosent account for power attack possibly not being broken.

You missed this part.

Before I begin, let me say that the purpose of this thread is not argue whether or not Power Attack needs fixing. The presumption is that if you are in the House Rules forum reading a thread on fixing Power Attack, then you believe Power Attack either needs to be fixed or could stand some fixing. Either way, comments such as "PA isn't broken ur sooooo stoopid" are not welcome. Consequently, there is no option on the poll for "PA doesn't need fixing." If you are of that ilk and can't help but post without arguing the point, please post elsewhere.

 

[Graf]

Glad you’re not giving up despite the constant drone of “power attack isn’t broken” from a certain vocal group.

I voted for the +d8 (+2d6) system you suggested.
I’m surprised it’s not more popular.

The big problem with power attack is the obnoxious-only-available-here multiplication effect. Virtually everything else in the game that adds to damage adds dice.
There is no reason why crit multipliers from weapons need to multiply power attack damage (and a lot of problems come about when people start multiplying two digit numbers in their heads and over-estimate their damage).

It’s simple, it’s elegant, it always works one way and you can roll the damage dice together with the attack roll. (And if you’re rolling the power attack die then everyone knows you’re taking a minus -5 on your attack, so you don’t have the “didn’t declare to use power attack but I meant to” type conversations).

For a non-twinked character the die roll gives the same average damage bump, it’s only the cheesy builds that suffer the ignominious fate of doing the same damage as normal characters.

 

[Destil]

Two-handed power attack should be x1.5. The designers simply choose to make the math easier.

I'm leaning more and more towards the idea that you should need a feat to get 1.5x Str bonus to damage with a two-handed weapon, and all in all I think making power attack a feat chain in conjunction with this would work well.

 

[Celebrim]

Actually, I think I like a combination of #1 and #2.

 

[Nifft]

Here's something I just thought of: instead of eliminating the use of Power Attack with Light weapons, eliminate the simultaneous operation of Weapon Finesse and Power Attack. So, you can Power Attack 1-for-1 with a Light weapon, but you can't apply your Dex to attack when you do this.

Now, for the two-handed power attack, I rather like the 3-for-2 idea. Then it works just like Strength bonus, so it's not like there's some new system to learn.

But also, I think it should be capped at +5. Damn, I sound like a walking nerf-stick.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Fieari]

I know you said "if you don't have a problem with PA don't post", but I feel I have something to add anyway. Because I do feel there is an imbalance and discrepancy with regards to how much more effective a 2H Swordsman is over a Sword and Board guy.

But my fix wasn't to nerf power attack. Instead, I beefed Combat Expertise, making it limited by your total BAB right out of the gate, like PA, and in addition, gave a 2-for-1 ratio when it comes to using shields.

This had the effect of making combat expertise actually useful, and used by my players, which NEVER happened before, and the shield became quite a useful tool. Maybe perhaps a bit too useful at times, but we had fun, and the nigh-impossible to hit ACs were countered with quite interesting tactics, if I do say so myself, including drawing out attacks by presenting targets of opportunity, flanking, and other such things.

 

[Harm]

Option 6: Instead of adding 1 or 2 damage per base attack, add 1d6 just as if it was a wizard spell and don't make it reduce the base attack. Also make it be able to hit out to 400 feet + 40/level, and damage everything in a 20 foot radius. Also at level 7 give melee "Assay Armour" which lets them as a swift action completely ignore armor and damage reduction of a target with no save for 1 round/level. Make Shock Trooper and other feats instead of multiplying to cause an attack to do maximimum damage on a hit or to roll 50% more damage dice, once per day per 2 levels above 9th, unless they spend a relativly small amont of money on a "metacombat rod" which will let them do it 3 additional times per day per rod.

 

[airwalkrr]

Option 6: Instead of adding 1 or 2 damage per base attack, add 1d6 just as if it was a wizard spell and don't make it reduce the base attack. Also make it be able to hit out to 400 feet + 40/level, and damage everything in a 20 foot radius. Also at level 7 give melee "Assay Armour" which lets them as a swift action completely ignore armor and damage reduction of a target with no save for 1 round/level. Make Shock Trooper and other feats instead of multiplying to cause an attack to do maximimum damage on a hit or to roll 50% more damage dice, once per day per 2 levels above 9th, unless they spend a relativly small amont of money on a "metacombat rod" which will let them do it 3 additional times per day per rod.

Sounds good, but you're only going halfway. Fighters should also get a poor base attack, d4 hit die and no armor or weapon proficiency. Oh wait, that would make them wizards.

Seriously. I asked politely at the beginning of this thread for no trolling. This thread is for people who want to discuss HOUSE RULES for Power Attack, not for trolls.