What's the Best Fix for Power Attack?

[trav_laney]

The way we fixed it IMC is to simply not allow it to be multiplied on critical hits. But seeing these other options has given me food for thought. Great thread!

As-written, the Power Attack feat appears to have been developed by scythe merchants.

 

[The Levitator]

This is pretty balanced, in my opinion, and at lower levels, fighters really do want the extra protection a shield affords. PA only becomes broken at higher levels with lots of equipment and feat combos.

That's what I kinda thought and was hoping to hear. I admit to not being as astute at number crunching and calculating as many on here, so I really appreciate the comparison and feedback!

 

[Goblyn]

Maybe the problem with power attack is the lack of feats that make the other fighting styles as mechanically attractive.

Maybe there is room for a sword-and border feat that allows better use of the shield(add strength bonus to AC when holding a shield, for example).

Or a 'harry' maneuver available to 2 weapon fighters that reduces the AC of opponents, or a 'simultaneous strike' maneuver that lets them use their first attack roll for both weapons.

I don't mean for this post to be of the requested-restricted type, but there are two sides to this issue that I can see: broken PA brings fighters closer on par with spellcasters, but out of line with other fighters.

I'm sorry if this breaks that rule.

 

[Harm]

Well, I had a nice reply and some moderator deleted it. Apparantly this board needs one less moderator since theres one going around that's pretty clueless about their job.

In short:
a) Many threads have shown mathmatically it's a useless feat at 1:1 and only worth it 1:2 in small amounts. Airwalkrr can posts threads until he's blue in the face about it, but you can't argue against that.

b) It's obviously not broken on it's own, only in ridiculous examples requireing stacking of many things together does the damage become significant. See the many wraithstrike threads, and there it's not powerattack thats the problem, but as everyone realizes, it's wraithstrike.

c) Many monsters rely on powerattack. House ruling it is going to gimp many monsters, particularly in the mid-level range such as giants and dragons.

 

[trav_laney]

c) Many monsters rely on powerattack. House ruling it is going to gimp many monsters, particularly in the mid-level range such as giants and dragons.

A way to avoid this problem would be to make it a monster feat...if one were so inclined, anyway. But as per the first sentence in this thread, the point is not to argue about whether or not Power Attack needs fixing in the first place...it is to discuss ways to fix it because you already think it is broken.

I fixed it by not allowing it to be multiplied on a critical hit. Having read other people's ideas, however, I think I would like to test out the 2-for-1 variant, but cap it at 10. And still not allow it to multiply on a crit.

Geez. As if math weren't already too pervasive in the game...

 

[llamatron2000]

Maybe the problem with power attack is the lack of feats that make the other fighting styles as mechanically attractive.

Maybe there is room for a sword-and border feat that allows better use of the shield(add strength bonus to AC when holding a shield, for example).

Or a 'harry' maneuver available to 2 weapon fighters that reduces the AC of opponents, or a 'simultaneous strike' maneuver that lets them use their first attack roll for both weapons.

I don't mean for this post to be of the requested-restricted type, but there are two sides to this issue that I can see: broken PA brings fighters closer on par with spellcasters, but out of line with other fighters.

I'm sorry if this breaks that rule.

I think that the requested-restricted types of posts are necessary in this thread. However, I think all points should be made respectfully and earnestly.


As for two weapon fighting and sword and board, there's a lot of incentive for both, and they can even overlap a little bit with shield bash and shield spikes added into the mix. The thing you have to remember is, though, is that these fighter-types will NEVER reach the insane damage output that a core RAW 2H power attacker will get. They're dependent upon finesse and maneuvers to accomplish what they do in battle. They just seem mathematically weaker. They generally aren't that bad off, though.

The pure TWF fighter is generally hitting a -lot- of the time more than the two-hander, for good sneak attack damage. They're going to be getting 2 attacks upon the enemy, with their full attack bonus(TWF penalties applied), and the sneak attack HURTS. They'll probably also have a decent AC, and a repertoire of maneuvers with which to turn the battle in their favor. Crippling strike OWNS.

The sword and board fighter can also TWF, and they get a beefy shield bonus along with it that can boost up their AC's into the stratosphere. These are usually the guys who beat up other melee fighters. They may also be using rogue, to get in fients and double sneak attacks.

Looking at it this way, really all the RAW 2H PA wielder has is math. But math -is- a pretty strong, blunt instrument. Therefore, you really kind of do want to give -some- sort of benefit to the 2H PA wielder then, huh? Maybe a x1.5 bonus for 2H PA is merited, then?

Jesus, I keep on contradicting myself.

 

[airwalkrr]

I have a question for everyone here, as there seems to be a lot of very knowledgeable people on this thread. We tend to run campaigns up to 10th-12th level at the most. I guess all of the threads about power creep have steered us away from epic campaigns. For games that typically peak at 10th-12th level, does power attack need an adjustment? I have no problem modifying my game (we use a ton of house rules), and if the consensus is that a change is needed even for low-moderate campaigns, I would love some input as to the best options for this type of campaign.

I'm seeing problems with Power Attack right now in my Age of Worms campaign which is at 15th level. It has been a problem since they were level 11 or so. I've had to put a few strictures on it so that the fighter isn't the only one dealing significant damage.

Edit: Also note it is still a minor problem even though I banned floaty shields.

 

[Storyteller01]

We use mostly 3.0 rules. Works well at the moment.

 

[Piratecat]

Well, I had a nice reply and some moderator deleted it. Apparantly this board needs one less moderator since theres one going around that's pretty clueless about their job.

Ah. Insults.

It's a shame that you didn't read the rules when the Moderator asked you to, because you would have seen all sorts of fascinating things - rules like "don't call out a moderator in a thread," for instance, or "email the mod if you want to discuss it," or "don't insult people." You've got three days off. Seriously, please read and follow the rules - and feel free to email Plane Sailing or myself to discuss this if anything is unclear.

 

[BRP2]

Moderators should be more quick to ban! That always fun to see.

Harm, people will disagree with you, so calm down. And try not to treat this like a MMORPG, this is DnD for Pete's sake.

Personally I disagree with 1:1 making the feat useless. I personally have my own fix, but 1:1 wouldn't make it useless.