5E What's the point of Giant Insect?

Undrave

Adventurer
So Giant Insect is a 4th Level transmutation spell that lets you turn a specific number of insect into their Giant forms. For exemple, you can turn 3 spiders into Giant Spiders. It lasts for 10 minutes.

Conjure Animal is a 3rd level spell that lets you summer a number of creature of a specific CR. For exemple, you can summon up to 2 Giant Spiders. It last for an hour.

Both are concentration spells with no material component, but Giant Insect requires the specific insects to be nearby.

Both are on the Druid Spell list.

Am I missing something here or the 'upgrade' from 3rd level to 4th level is not worth it at all?!

Is getting 10 Giant Centipede that MUCH better than 8 wolves? At first I thought their would be an advantage for a Transmutation specialist Wizard, but it's not on the Wizars spell list. A Shepperd Druid can't even let the Giant Insects benefit from his/her class feature.

Might as well keep using Conjure Animal and use some other 4th level spell instead.
 

Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.
Conjure Animal lets you pick the max CR, but not the creatures themselves. Whatever the DM gives you is what you get. You could summon one creature and end up with a single quipper.

Giant Insect gives you total control of what you get in addition to giving you more/bigger creatures. Also you don't have to deal with fey spirits, which is an incalculable benefit.
 

Paul Farquhar

Adventurer
The main difference is Counjure Animals doesn't let the druid choose what kind of animal you get. You might want giant spiders but you might get giant sheep.

Another, probably less significant difference is the "Animals" conjured are actually fey, not beasts.

Giant Insect can give you a giant scorpion, which at CR3 is more powerful than anything Conjure Animals can give you, or with 10 giant centipedes is a greater number of critters.

It's also about the worst named spell, since centipedes, spiders and scorpions are not insects.

So far as I can see, "Mighty Summoner" applies to both spells, unless you have a very pedantic DM.
 
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Coroc

Explorer
The main difference is Counjure Animals doesn't let the druid choose what kind of animal you get. You might want giant spiders but you might get giant sheep.

Another, probably less significant difference is the "Animals" conjured are actually fey, not beasts.

Giant Insect can give you a giant scorpion, which at CR3 is more powerful than anything Conjure Animals can give you, or with 10 giant centipedes is a greater number of critters.

It's also about the worst named spell, since centipedes, spiders and scorpions are not insects.

So far as I can see, "Mighty Summoner" applies to both spells, unless you have a very pedantic DM.

ROFLMAO haha you summon a horde of cute fluffy rabbits, the evil overlord is so disgusted that he perishes instantly by cuteness overload :)


Otoh, the giant sheep might be useful to carry away the heap of loot...
 

Undrave

Adventurer
Conjure Animal lets you pick the max CR, but not the creatures themselves. Whatever the DM gives you is what you get. You could summon one creature and end up with a single quipper.

Giant Insect gives you total control of what you get in addition to giving you more/bigger creatures. Also you don't have to deal with fey spirits, which is an incalculable benefit.
The main difference is Counjure Animals doesn't let the druid choose what kind of animal you get. You might want giant spiders but you might get giant sheep.
I guess if the DM is being a dick and just giving you useless stuff then Conjure Animal is a useless spell. I'm not a fan of this... All other 3rd level spells have a specific outcome that can be expected to happen whenever you cast them. Why would I throw my ressources away on a spell that can backfire so spectacularly? But let's put that aside for now,

Assuming you get an equivalent CR from both spell, is the extra number of creatures you get, and the fact they are not Fey, actually worth the downgrade from 1 hour to 10 minutes when going from 3rd to 4th level? Or the fact that you need to carry bugs with you everywhere to use it, otherwise you're not getting much during winter.

And yeah, a Giant Scorpion is stronger but I feel like the advantage of summoning multiple creatures is that you get more body on the board to tank hits AND you get to do some serious crit-fishing by throwing multiple attacks. I'd argue it's always better mechanically to go for the maximum number of creatures you can get.

That said, I usually limit myself to 2 creatures for the sake of the table...
 

dave2008

Adventurer
@Undrave I think the point of the spell has been explained. So at this juncture you just need to decided if you think it is worth it or not. I'm guessing not, and there is nothing wrong with that. It has its particular place, and you are allowed to not like or agree with it. There are a lot of other spell options
 

Undrave

Adventurer
I can see some values in Giant Insect but I just don't understand why it's not also 3rd level and basically a case of 'Cure Wound VS Healing Word' ya know? Nor why the Transmutation Wizard doesn't get it... seems like it would be a good spell for them.

Here speaketh someone who has never lost a whole pack of wolves to dragon breath or a fireball.
Ah! that's true. I've mostly used packs of wolves for crowd control. Their most valuable aspect is how they can knock people prone. I usually just send them in pairs against different targets.
 

Ashrym

Adventurer
It's not a wizard spell because of the nature theme, just like wizards don't get earthquake. Diviners don't get every divination spell that exists either. ;-)

The design decision is that (even though they do get a lot) wizards don't get everything.
 

Gadget

Explorer
I believe the spell has always been a cleric/druid spell, so that is why the wizard does not get access. Also, it technically does not summon the creatures, merely enhances those that are already present. This seemed to fit into the nature themed Druid spell list back in the day; plus wizards had plenty of other summoning spells to keep them going back then.
 

aco175

Explorer
I thought a hoard of rabbits was called a fluffle, like a crash of rhinos or a murder or crows. I want my wish back.
 
It's also about the worst named spell, since centipedes, spiders and scorpions are not insects.
In the pre-Linnaean 'Great Chain of Being' credited by the learned of the middle ages, spiders & scorpions were insects.
Given how anachronistic D&D spell names & descriptions are everywhere else, though, I'd consider that a happy accident.

I think the 3e convention of /Vermin/ was pretty a pretty reasonable alternative.
 

Paul Farquhar

Adventurer
Well, that's just poor spelling. You'd think a Wish spell would be able to tell the difference between "hoard" and "horde".
Poor spelling is probably my fault, I'm dyslexic.

And phonetically, with my Lancashire accent, both words are exact homophones.
 

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