What's the WORST Star Wars movie?

[Bedrockgames]

TLJ nails the failure of our heroes down even further, kicks out anything potentially interesting from TFA, can't stand on its own message,

I have no issue with subtext but one issue I had with TLJ was the subtext and the meta stuff was all so surface level a lot of the dialogue felt like the screenwriter speaking directly to the audience (so it just felt like it was interfering with the natural flow of conversation to me and kind of leapt out). In some movies that might work, it feels really strange in a Star Wars film (to be fair this isn't the first time its happened in Star Wars, but when it does it just doesn't land with me: Star Trek can manage social commentary, it is practically built around it, but Star Wars really feels like it should stick with myth and light space fantasy).

 

[Xamnam]

I have no issue with subtext but one issue I had with TLJ was the subtext and the meta stuff was all so surface level a lot of the dialogue felt like the screenwriter speaking directly to the audience (so it just felt like it was interfering with the natural flow of conversation to me and kind of leapt out). In some movies that might work, it feels really strange in a Star Wars film (to be fair this isn't the first time its happened in Star Wars, but when it does it just doesn't land with me: Star Trek can manage social commentary, it is practically built around it, but Star Wars really feels like it should stick with myth and light space fantasy).

Yeah, I have some issues with how The Last Jedi achieved some of its goals, and certain scenes don't sit perfectly, but as far as the actual storytelling, I liked almost every choice it made.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Yeah, I have some issues with how The Last Jedi achieved some of its goals, and certain scenes don't sit perfectly, but as far as the actual storytelling, I liked almost every choice it made.

This is very subjective so opinions will vary. For me, a lot of the choices just didn't work, particularly for a Star Wars film and particularly as a follow-up to The Force Awakens. Just as one example, the whole prank phone call at the start and turning Hux into a running gag, just didn't work (he was shaping up to be a ferocious villain in the first one and I think he could have been used better, plus that joke just broke the fourth wall for me). The scene in Force Awakens where Hux is giving the whole speech (and you are clearly seeing the parallels to WWII) worked well for me. It was a stand out moment, and I remember thinking this is a great villain to pair with Kylo because Ren was so much more conflicted (whereas Hux seemed even more in the grips of the dark side than him). It also was a nice bit of world building because it showed how the dark side could be this thing that still had relevance to non-Jedi and could even have social and political implications. So taking that terrifying moment and transforming its key figure into Buster Keaton, while I guess a successful attempt to subvert what came before, felt like it took away from the trilogy rather than added to it for me.

But a lot of the film did work. It was beautifully made. Even though I hated the joke at the beginning of the film, the way those ships were presented visually, the way everything was presented reminded me almost of Kubrick (and Star Wars owes a lot to his visual design so that connection made sense in my mind). I also liked the Rose Tico character a lot. There was something absent in the chemistry of the three leads in 7 (which wouldn't normally matter but because the first trilogy was built around an ensemble, it really stood out). So finding that chemistry with Finn and Rose worked for me. And stuff like the red and white coloration on the planet in the final battle was great. But then there was stuff like Snoke Hefner, meta and message heavy dialogue like "Let the past die. Kill it if you have to. It's the only way to become who you were meant to be" (this would have worked if it were more subtle and less surface level in my opinion), etc. Was it a bad movie? I can't say it was. Was it a bad Star Wars movie? I think so. Was it a bad second part to a three part trilogy, absolutely.

The overall pace and action of the film worked really well. I think of the two Directors, Johnson is clearly way better than Abrahms, but he would have been a lot better used either completely directing his own star wars trilogy (so it could be coherent) or giving him a new science fiction franchise to direct.

I think another issue is Abrahms to Johnson to Abrahms is a really weird choice. I couldn't stand the new Star Trek movies because of how Abrahms directed them (I guess star trek is action adventure now?). But I could at least see how his approach would work for Star Wars. Johnson blew me away with Looper. He clearly can do intelligent, interesting social science fiction exceptionally well. I guess I found that style fits really oddly with a Star Wars movie. He should be doing things like directing screen adaptations of Brave New World or The End of Eternity not space opera. The latter actually would have worked really well I think in the hands of Johnson, especially since Asimov's topic would have lent itself much better to the themes Johnson was exploring),

 

[billd91]

I had no problem with the original heroes breaking apart due to the trauma of Ben Solo turning into Kyle Ren. So elements of the sequel trilogy worked for me. They were, however, an internally disorganized mess and lacked an appropriate obfuscation of space and time. JJ Abrams ignoring the massive distances in space is kind of a thing with him. And Rian Johnson made it too specific to avoid writing the story into a corner.

But they still suck less than Attack of the Clones.

 

[MarkB]

This is very subjective so opinions will vary. For me, a lot of the choices just didn't work, particularly for a Star Wars film and particularly as a follow-up to The Force Awakens. Just as one example, the whole prank phone call at the start and turning Hux into a running gag, just didn't work (he was shaping up to be a ferocious villain in the first one and I think he could have been used better, plus that joke just broke the fourth wall for me). The scene in Force Awakens where Hux is giving the whole speech (and you are clearly seeing the parallels to WWII) worked well for me. It was a stand out moment, and I remember thinking this is a great villain to pair with Kylo because Ren was so much more conflicted (whereas Hux seemed even more in the grips of the dark side than him). It also was a nice bit of world building because it showed how the dark side could be this thing that still had relevance to non-Jedi and could even have social and political implications. So taking that terrifying moment and transforming its key figure into Buster Keaton, while I guess a successful attempt to subvert what came before, felt like it took away from the trilogy rather than added to it for me.

The part that didn't land for me about that scene was those terrible bomber designs. Star Wars has always borrowed heavily from a WWII aesthetic, but the slow, lumbering bombers that drop their payload directly downwards, in space, just felt like it went from aesthetic to direct adaptation with no regard for medium, and the idea that the Resistance would consider using them in such a strike just felt wrong.

But a lot of the film did work. It was beautifully made. Even though I hated the joke at the beginning of the film, the way those ships were presented visually, the way everything was presented reminded me almost of Kubrick (and Star Wars owes a lot to his visual design so that connection made sense in my mind). I also liked the Rose Tico character a lot. There was something absent in the chemistry of the three leads in 7 (which wouldn't normally matter but because the first trilogy was built around an ensemble, it really stood out). So finding that chemistry with Finn and Rose worked for me. And stuff like the red and white coloration on the planet in the final battle was great. But then there was stuff like Snoke Hefner, meta and message heavy dialogue like "Let the past die. Kill it if you have to. It's the only way to become who you were meant to be" (this would have worked if it were more subtle and less surface level in my opinion), etc. Was it a bad movie? I can't say it was. Was it a bad Star Wars movie? I think so. Was it a bad second part to a three part trilogy, absolutely.

I liked the chemistry in TFA. I thought Finn and Poe bromancing as they stole a TIE Fighter was great, as was Finn and Rey connecting as they stole the Millennium Falcon. One of the great shames of the subsequent movies is that they didn't really build on that.

Finn and Rose was fine, but they were ill-served by the plot, their actions ultimately being not merely ineffective but actually counterproductive.

What worked for me in TLJ were Poe's journey towards leadership via Leia's example, and Rey's journey towards understanding the Force through both Luke and Kylo.

 

[RangerWickett]

It’s not that hard.

New plot: when Rey finds Luke, we find out that the new republic leaned on Luke more and more as time when on (same point as the movie), but as Luke used his power more and more…he was tempted by the dark side. And for a time, it overcame him.

Luke knew that his fall would do more damage than any other threat, so he closed himself off and worked to purify himself.

This version of Luke is not a bitter hermit but a hopeful monastic, who left a map in case the galaxy did need him again and he has been working towards the light so he would be ready. This version of Luke still is greatly concerned about Rey’s darkness and is reluctant to train her, but ultimately many of the same steps can be followed.


And there you go, now you have a Luke that still works with TFAs setup, doesn’t destroy the character, and still can work with the rest of your movie if you still want the core plot to remain as is. Not even that hard, now imagine what i could figure out if I was an actual writer!

And that's still gonna screw over the next director because all that gets revealed in the opening minutes. We ended with Rey right in front of Luke, so they're can't really be any time jump between the movies. So that whole plot line will play out while the rest of the galaxy twiddles its thumbs. Either that or we need to have the First Order show up immediately to keep attacking.

 

[MGibster]

Yeah, I have some issues with how The Last Jedi achieved some of its goals, and certain scenes don't sit perfectly, but as far as the actual storytelling, I liked almost every choice it made.

This must be what it's like to see a unicorn in the wild! Okay, not really, my coworker is a huge Star Wars fan and he loved the new triology. That makes two people I know of who liked some aspects of TLJ.

 

[MGibster]

I liked the chemistry in TFA. I thought Finn and Poe bromancing as they stole a TIE Fighter was great, as was Finn and Rey connecting as they stole the Millennium Falcon. One of the great shames of the subsequent movies is that they didn't really build on that.

I liked Poe a lot in the TFA.

What worked for me in TLJ were Poe's journey towards leadership via Leia's example, and Rey's journey towards understanding the Force through both Luke and Kylo.

Poe's little mutiny didn't work for me at all and Laura Dern was wasted on Holdo. I get Poe is supposed to be a hot head, but Admiral Holdo was some sort of super crummy commander and Poe is a mutineer? Seriously? I wanted him thrown out of the airlock by the end of the movie.

 

[Xamnam]

This must be what it's like to see a unicorn in the wild! Okay, not really, my coworker is a huge Star Wars fan and he loved the new triology. That makes two people I know of who liked some aspects of TLJ.

Heh, and in my group of friends the relative consensus is that TLJ is the only interesting one of those three, and that Johnson did his best with the relative hamstringing of TFA. Would love to have seen what a trilogy from him alone looked like.

 

[Davies]

This must be what it's like to see a unicorn in the wild! Okay, not really, my coworker is a huge Star Wars fan and he loved the new triology. That makes two people I know of who liked some aspects of TLJ.

Three.