What's this about a plagiarized map in Conan: City of Shadizar?

[InzeladunMaster]

In that light, I-Master, do you really even want to read his response? Personally, I don't.

Yes, I would.

 

[Crothian]

Which kills me. I’m an English grad student who can’t find an editing job ANYWHERE… And yet gamers are -always- complaining about small grammatical errors in their games? *Sigh*

look around, I'm sure there are people looking for good editors. You might suggest that you you edit a few pages of something for free for them so they can see how good you actually are. If you do that you can be assured they will give you some of the most horrible writing bits they have that they don't want to edit themselves.

 

[Carnifex]

Now, I will try to hijak the thread again with a call for any information that I can get about The Horned God Complete Camapign. I was glad to see Matt and a Mongoose editor posting here and hoped they would shed some light on this conversion from Slaine (again not my cup of tea but apparently liked by some). I am waiting for this product with baited breath.

I'll have to check on how much I can say about the Horned God at the moment, and I'm not the editor involved in that project, but I might be able to shed a little bit of light on it for you - what do you want to know?

 

[Crazy 'Scaper]

I'll have to check on how much I can say about the Horned God at the moment, and I'm not the editor involved in that project, but I might be able to shed a little bit of light on it for you - what do you want to know?

Well I'm not scourger but I hope that you don't mind if I ask you a couple of questions about the Horned God. In the process of revising the Horned God has all the Slaine-specific material (e.g. names of characters, tribes, locations etc.) been retained or are Mongoose going for something more generically "celtic"? And do you know if the artwork from the comics is going to be used again?

 

[ledded]

That's odd, since the client would need your SSN in order to issue a W-4 come tax time...unless you make it a habit to work illegally off the books....

Well, to be fair, that's not how contracting always works.

I have done computer contracting work under the umbrella of my own small home business, and the only thing I sent my client was an invoice. All I received was a check. Because it was *contract* work, which you as the contractor carry the onerous duty of reporting and paying taxes on (1099's and schedule C's and depreciation, oh my!).

It's similar to when you hire a general contractor to do home improvement by ripping out your kitchen cabinets and putting in new ones. You don't send him a W-4 or anything else; you both worked out an estimate, he does the work, you give him a check.

Unfortunately, things like this is why the word "contractor" in a lot of businesses can sometimes carry a negative overtone, while in others it does not.

"Taking the mick" is my new favourite phrase.

Heehee! Mine too, and I'm not even sure exactly what that means! . (I gotta go re-read my Pratchett apparently, or wait for Mongoose_Matt to fill me in)

You know, I suspected Vig had inferior taste when he included Rooster Kung Fu in Blood & Fists II...

Bah, you're just sayin' that because he said he liked my cheesy story hour...

I thought the inclusion of Rooster *and* Lucha Libre showed not only an impressive depth of knowledge of the subject and earnest desire to provide as full of a Martial Arts picture as possible, but the flair to not give a damn if someone turned up their nose at d20 Mucha Lucha...

Well you certainly can't *debate* with him. Next he'll say those who disagree with him have moral issues, cheat on their wives and rob liquor stores.

I... was... in... *COLLEGE* then! Jeez, can you never get a break around here?!? (just kiddin' folks. Ok, maybe just about that robbing liquor store part...)

All jokin' aside, Mongoose_Matt to be honest I don't own that many Mongoose products, but your openess and directness in your email I found to be very refreshing and well put. I'm going to be checking out a few more Mongoose things in the future, especially since you guys are putting out some very wicked cool looking miniature games I can cannibalize for my own twisted RPG campaigns .

EDIT: Did I just say "wicked cool"? I dunno, something about a semi-flame war makes me turn into a 12 year old or something

 

[arkham618]

Arkham618, what would you like to have seen in Conan the Roleplaying Game that would have made a more positive difference (other than grammar/spelling corrections)? Can you give a clearer, more specific example as to why you feel GURPs Conan is better than Conan the Roleplaying Game?

Okay, I wanted to walk away from this thread for a few days because I was getting progressively angrier as I responded to certain posts. My past experiences with Mongoose have left such a bad taste in my mouth that I find it hard to speak calmly about the company and its products. To answer your question, though, I would like to have seen a streamlined combat system in the Conan RPG, one that captured the frenetic pace of the fictional battles, in which Conan and his companions cleaved through platoons of disposable minions en route to the evil demon/sorcerer/whatever. Something like the combat rules from Mutants & Masterminds, not the kludgy, grit-obsessed chimera Mongoose presented. (The grittiness of Conan rested in the fact that people died quickly and without ceremony, not that the combats were described in excruciating detail.) I would also like to have seen sample NPCs (major and minor), better art, an even more restricted magic system than was presented (sorcerers in the literature were exceedingly rare, extremely powerful, and usually quite solitary -- a case could be made for disallowing magic to PCs altogether), more extrapolated background material (I've seen the Howard essay already, thanks), an accurate map, fewer instances of obvious cut-and-paste from the SRD, and a mass-combat system (in the core book, where it belonged, not as a doh-woopsy web enhancement). Looking into the matter further, I'm being told that some of these issues were addressed in the Atlantean edition. That's fine. Better late than never, I guess, but my money and time are limited, and I've been burned too many times by Mongoose to risk either on them again. They'd have to churn out a real gem to get me to change my mind, and so far I've heard nothing to indicate that they have.

I feel that GURPS Conan provided a broader base for adventuring, perhaps because it drew on the pastiches as well as the original stories, which increased the available background material. Yes, the non-Howard stories themselves were stylistically inferior, but they fleshed out whole sections of the Hyborian world for which little or no information was previously available. (When writing serial fiction, it's okay to leave big chunks of the setting undefined, but not so in an RPG.) The GURPS version also presented magic as much more esoteric and rare than the OGL version, IMO, which seemed to be trying for a compromise between its D&D (high-magic) heritage and the subject matter. The GURPS combat rules were too involved, but it would have served OGL Conan to move away from that example, not toward it.

 

[trancejeremy]

But people change, as do companies, and we all deserve a second chance. It sounds (from Mongoose Matt's post above) that they not only acknowledge their (rather large) mistakes regarding editing but are genuinely interested in correcting them, especially after the first run of the Conan core book.

Unlike Arkham, I will look at the Jeremiah core book in my local RPG store, and I'll flip through the Conan suppliments. If I still see the same ol' crap, then Mongoose has lost a customer for good. If the writing and editing is better....well, make room for me on the wagon, you know?

OTOH, there's an old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me".

Unfortunately, a lot of problems with books aren't something you notice while flipping through them.

Cases like this are why it's too bad libraries don't carry RPG books...(while how Shadizar was designed doesn't seem to inspire me with confidence, the Book of Immortals looks very intriguing...but I've been burned too many times. )

 

[scourger]

I'll have to check on how much I can say about the Horned God at the moment, and I'm not the editor involved in that project, but I might be able to shed a little bit of light on it for you - what do you want to know?

Here's my question as conciesly and directly as I can put it. Will I be able to run The Horned God as a core D&D campaign with players playing a barbarian, a bard, a druid, a fighter and a rogue without an emphasis on human sacrifice?

Here's a longer version. Like Crazy 'Scaper, I would like to know about the artwork. As with the Slaine-specific names, etc., it is not too important to me that it be retained; but it is nice to have good images as a reference and to set the tone. A short glossary or introductory chapter about a celtic world setting would be very helpful. A little new crunch goes a long way for me, so I would rather not have a bunch of new rules. I would prefer those pages be used for fluffy setting information goodness. For example, I found Slaine interesting as a setting; but the slew of new, variant d20 rules that tried to unnecessarily replace things done very well in the core D&D game killed it for me. This is just my opinion, though; and this is just an expression of what this consumer would like to see: a module that is very portable so that I can use it in a way that is fun to me. The premise of a low-tech, low-magic celtic adventure module is very appealing to me.

Any information you can shed is appreciated.

 

[Jonny Nexus]

To answer your question, though, I would like to have seen a streamlined combat system in the Conan RPG, one that captured the frenetic pace of the fictional battles, in which Conan and his companions cleaved through platoons of disposable minions en route to the evil demon/sorcerer/whatever. Something like the combat rules from Mutants & Masterminds, not the kludgy, grit-obsessed chimera Mongoose presented. [SNIP] fewer instances of obvious cut-and-paste from the SRD [SNIP] The GURPS version also presented magic as much more esoteric and rare than the OGL version, IMO, which seemed to be trying for a compromise between its D&D (high-magic) heritage and the subject matter.

I found Slaine interesting as a setting; but the slew of new, variant d20 rules that tried to unnecessarily replace things done very well in the core D&D game killed it for me.

And here you see the classic "can't please everyone" problem. One person will complain that your D20 game was too D&D-like while another will say that it wasn't D&D-like enough.

The funny thing is that many of them - not necessarily the ones I've quoted above - will insist that the game is totally flawed due to it being too D&D / not enough D&D and that the company concerned are fools who've completely misread the market for releasing it as such - apparently oblivious to the fact that there are other people arguing the exact opposite way.

(Similarly, if you do an OGL game people will complain about it duplicating the Players Handbook they already own, while if you go down the D20 route, people who don't already own a Players Handbook will complain about having to buy it).

 

[Crothian]

Slaine was cool