What's this about a plagiarized map in Conan: City of Shadizar?

[Crothian]

while I've heard from people that there are misspelling on the back of the boix, I've yet to hear any complaints (aside from the map) on anything inside the box. So, while editing errors on the box are of course not good, the actaul box probably doesn't see much use in game.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Doubly-weird, this sounds like the exact same map I edited up to stand in for my major city in my own homebrew campaign.

Cudos to the original artist, I guess, since people keep ripping his stuff off.

Though MY city isn't in a desert ... on the edge of a great caldera lake. Dry and wet docks for my flying ships.

Too bad for the freelancer. I'm sure he's pretty depressed right about now. It was probably a movement of desperation.

--fje

 

[Mongoose_Matt]

Given Mongoose's long history of rotten, slip-shod editing, I would urge everyone to wait before throwing the artist or anyone else under the bus just yet. For example, I understand that the very sell copy on the back of a recent Conan boxed set is riddled with typos -- if your quality control is /that/ bad, I could easily imagine a last minute mistake like sustituting a placeholder map for the final one.

One word - character.

Is that acceptable? No. When I go into the office tomorrow, a new procedure will be in place to ensure that even this can never happen again. Is it indicative of the contents of the box? Absolutely not. I won't go into the whys and wherefores, but the text on the back of this box was not subjected to the same tests and procedures as that inside - as from tomorrow, it will be.

That said, Mongoose is a very different creature to the beast it was a year ago when the Conan RPG was first released. I cannot _begin_ to tell you ther feelings I have towards the individuals responsible for that -up but, in a way they did us a favour.

Up to that point, Mongoose was run as any other small-time RPG publisher. Projects tended to be 'private' and just one person was responsible for each one. We trusted said individuals because, well, they had always done good work in the past. Conan ended all that when several people, and one in particular, quite frankly took the mick.

From that point on, we had a major overhaul of the company. More (and better) editors were brought in full-time, a management structure was put in place and proofing standards were raised by an order of magnitude. We made it impossible for the faults of Conan to spread to other books. Impossible.

Now, we are still only human - there are just more of us working on each project, so more problems get picked up. There will always be some problem somewhere that will bite us in the backside - if the likes of GW and WotC need errata, then perfection is still a distance away from the industry as a whole. The text on the back of Shadizar is an example. One wrong word, very frustrating but in no way effects the rest of the product. The artist issue is something else and people are right when they say he will likely never work in the industry again. We are just verifying a few facts and then will be happy to tell any publisher who asks what happened. Harsh, yes, but this is a case of someone taking the mick out of us to a degree not seen since Conan went to edit the first time.

Not that all this means much to the average gamer - you want good products and you want them now, right? The problems within an indivdiual company, while mildly interesting, have no bearing on your games. However, I can say that Mongoose has turned into a very different company over the past 12 months. The map and 'character' issue of Shadizar aside, you won't find anything like the problems in the past in our recently released books. You don't have to take my word for that - next time you are in your local games store, leaf through a recent Mongoose book. You will see the difference.

If you are wondering why people have stuck with us all this time, I think it is because we have always done what we said we are going to do. We have also handled our subject material with great care - B5 is a great game - so is Conan. Check out Jeremiah, even if the TV series was not your thing.

If anyone is still reading this (!), there is a very good reason why Mongoose has had these problems in the past while other companies seem to escape (more or less). First, obviously, the first printing of Conan did us no favours, and so gamers are naturally more critical when they come across our books - as they have every right to be. Second, there is no other games company that has grown with the speed Mongoose has in recent times.

Look at it this way. We joined the d20 chase late. All the Bastions, Mystic Eyes, Green Ronins, and all the rest were well established before we came along with the Slayer's Guide to Hobgoblins. There were over 100 hundred companies releasing d20 books at that time (we counted them!). Today, Mongoose has 17 full-time employees. Full-time. Permanent. The company grew at such a rate that it took both myself and my business partner by quite a surprise. Three years beforehand it was just him and I, with a couple of freelance artists. All of a sudden, we had a full blown company (a _proper_ company, with employees, Tax, PAYE, health benefits, etc) on our hands. As the company grew and expanded more and more things started to happen and, briefly, we fumbled the ball - the height of this was with Conan and for the reasons I described before. We were a medium-sized company (in RPG terms, small business still in real terms) but we were operating in the same way as we had always done. Didn't know any better.

Conan was the watershed. We swept the decks, employed some good people and completely restructured the company. From now on, it would operate as a 'real' company. Yes, mistakes would still be made - but you would be able to count all of them over a 12 month period on one hand and with 5-6 books coming out every month (with miniatures too now) that is a damned impressive record, if I do say so myself (!).

In short, if you are used to Slayer's Guides and Quintessentials, Mongoose is a very different company now, to the extent that you may not recognise it. Leaf through a few books down your local store, see the difference. I will now match our books with those of any other publisher in the market. They are ten times better than they ever were.

I want to thank the guys who have stuck with us through our growing pains and welcome those who may take another look at our books. We have some _awesome_ stuff coming out over the next 12 months and it would be a shame for anyone to miss it because they were expecting a first printing Conan. That, at least, will never happen again.

Now, if you will excuse me, I am off to research painful methods of exacting revenge on wanton artists. . .

And yes, _that_ will never happen again either. . .

 

[Crothian]

Thanks Matt, it is responses like this as well as seeing the improvements in your books first hand that have really given me faith in your company again!!

 

[barsoomcore]

"The second-hardest thing any company can endure is success."

Dunno who said that, actually, but it's very true. Success has to be managed and handled and directed and overcome just like failure does.

I hope Mongoose are able to weather the storm of their own success. It's a very difficult road to walk, and MOST companies (in all industries) don't manage it.

Good luck, guys.

 

[Garnfellow]

One word - character.

Matt,

Much thanks for the thoughtful response. I certainly want to believe you and see Mongoose succeed. Along with testimonials from folks like Crothian, a post like yours goes a long way toward making me give Mongoose a second chance. I'm not /quite/ there yet, but I look forward to seeing some good reviews of Mongoose's future efforts.

 

[Mongoose_Matt]

Matt,

Much thanks for the thoughtful response. I certainly want to believe you and see Mongoose succeed. Along with testimonials from folks like Crothian, a post like yours goes a long way toward making me give Mongoose a second chance. I'm not /quite/ there yet, but I look forward to seeing some good reviews of Mongoose's future efforts.

Garnfellow, that is all I ask. We have a lot of ground to make up and a lot of books to put out before we gain 100% confidence once more. However, I am happy to win hearts and minds over this one at a time

In other words, one day we will produce a book you wil just _have_ to check out - and on that day you will see that it is all good stuff.

See you then!

 

[ColonelHardisson]

First, obviously, the first printing of Conan did us no favours, and so gamers are naturally more critical when they come across our books - as they have every right to be.

I'll be honest; I ground my teeth in frustration when I heard that Mongoose got the rights to both Conan and B5. Both were favorites of mine, Conan especially, from back when I was a kid, reading both the mighty Howard's purple prose and Marvel's comics. Mongoose...well, let's just say that the Slayer's Guides and "Quintessential" series had left me underwhelmed.

Then, I heard you hired Vincent Darlage. Holy crap, for once a company actually paid attention and didn't assume they could do better than someone who did a helluva job on their own, out of love for the subject. I'd been a BIG fan of Vincent's Conan d20 site since I first found it. Knowing a guy like that, who was both a fan of the game and the subject about to be rendered into game terms, was going to be working on the project made me want to give Mongoose the benefit of the doubt. I'd already been slowly getting won over by products like Slaine, and this was news that had me hopeful for the definitive treatment of Conan in RPG terms.

Still, I held off buying Conan when it appeared. In decades past, a Conan RPG release was an instant buy for me (and it was, actually; I still own TSR's Conan RPG). I have to admit that the issues about editing and the like still made me hesitate...but I also admit to being disappointed and embarassed for Mongoose when the reviews revealed massive problems. I'd really wanted Mongoose to succeed.

Anyway, I've still held off buying Conan. I'm waiting for the Atlantean edition to show up round these parts. But, I did buy Road of Kings and Scrolls of Skelos, and found them to be fantastic, definitive works. I have to budget out some dough for the other Conan books, but I'm gonna get 'em...and oh yeah, I did get the pocket edition of B5, which I like a whole bunch. I just may pick up other books in the line.

 

[scourger]

Thanks for the information, Matt (and Carnifex). I am certainly willing to give Mongoose another shot.

On another, happier note, please give out some more information on the Horned God Complete Campaign, and make sure that product gets the "new editing" treatment.

 

[reanjr]

Assuming that the artist expected to be paid, it should be very easy. I doubt anyone in the RPG industry does anything on a cash basis -- meaning that, in the US at least, the artist would have had to supply basic tax info, including SS #, address, etc.

For contract work? No. All it requires is some way to send a check. Could be a bank account # for direct deposit or an address for mailing the check (both of which are easily tracked). But as someone who has done some contracting work myself (in the US) there is no way I would give a client my SSN or any other tax info.