What's wrong with Fighters as archers?

[Nifft]

Yeah. Fighter = great Archer. Weapon Specialization (Bow) is actually a good use of a feat!

Two levels of Ranger is seldom a bad idea. Two levels of Ranger and one level of Barbarian is even better, but also even cheesier.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Shazman]

A fighter can be an awesome archer. In fact, in the Red Hand of Doom Campaign, I am playing in, the human fighter specializing in archery does more damage than anyone. How? Simple: Mighty composite bow, point blank shot, precise shot, rapid shot, specialization, ranged mastery (piercing) (PHBII) plus bracers of archery. Within 30 ft, her minimum damage is 12 per arrow at 9th level. A scout with greater many shot might do more damage, but would have to be significantly higher level.

 

[Technik4]

one level of Barbarian is even better,

How does Rage help an archer? ...

 

[javcs]

How does Rage help an archer? ...

Higher strength rating on the bow => more damage.

 

[Jdvn1]

As said already, Fighters make for a good archer.

But, I think a Fighter is a better melee combatant. That is:
There is still an Archer niche that could be filled, I think. Take the Fighter class, lower the HD, drop heavy armor. Changing the good save from Fort to Reflex wouldn't be a bad idea, and you can still shake up the skills, but by that point the Archer is still weaker than the Fighter. You could increase the skill points or skill set, but I don't think an Archer would necessarily have a very different set of skills from a Fighter.

So, add custom ranged abilities. Come up with new stuff!

 

[RigaMortus2]

Higher strength rating on the bow => more damage.

But you would need a bow of that specific Str. In other words, say you have an 18 Strength and a Composite Bow +4 Str damage. If you rage, your Str bumps up to 22 (+6 damage) but you will still be capped at +4 Str damage from the Bow, so it is pointless to do that.

Now if you had say a Str 16 and rage, your Str becomes 20 with a +5 mod to damage, so you could use a Composite Bow +5, but then you will be taking negatives to hit whenever you use the bow are AREN'T Raging, because your Str mod has to match the plus from the Composite Bow.

Also IIRC, I believe Composite Bows are capped at +5 anyway.

 

[Slaved]

Fighters make excellent archers. In fact, if you want to use archery to deal damage, your best choice--by FAR--is a single classed fighter (at least until 12th level). The +4 damage on every shot from greater weapon specialization (going up to +6 if you toss ranged weapon mastery into the mix) is a huge advantage in damage dealing.

Far better than a cleric? If a cleric picks a deity with the war domain and has longbow as its favored weapon then they are starting on pretty even ground. Later on greater magic weapon on a bow might make up for the damage difference.

A fighter can be an awesome archer. In fact, in the Red Hand of Doom Campaign, I am playing in, the human fighter specializing in archery does more damage than anyone.

Is this fighter doing more damage than anyone because he does more damage per hit or because he is getting full attacks more often than anyone else? It looks like his average damage per hit is 15.5 which is about the same as a two handed weapon weilder with a +2 greatsword and an 18 strength score.

How does Rage help an archer?

Barbarians get fast movement which helps an archer. The rage is nice if you find yourself in melee with no way out of it though.

If you use whirling frenzy instead of rage then it becomes even more insanely good to take either way.

Also IIRC, I believe Composite Bows are capped at +5 anyway.

I do not see that limitation in the composite bow section. Perhaps it was a 3.0 limitation?

 

[Darklone]

Far better than a cleric? If a cleric picks a deity with the war domain and has longbow as its favored weapon then they are starting on pretty even ground. Later on greater magic weapon on a bow might make up for the damage difference.

The fighter hits better and does more damage as long as the cleric does not use persistant Divine Power AND Divine Favor.

Is this fighter doing more damage than anyone because he does more damage per hit or because he is getting full attacks more often than anyone else? It looks like his average damage per hit is 15.5 which is about the same as a two handed weapon weilder with a +2 greatsword and an 18 strength score.

Two big advantages for the archer:
- More full attack actions with
- usually one more attack due to Rapid Shot.

The possibility to "stack" weapon and ammunition special abilities offers nice opportunities if you have some buddies who help you with buff spells like Flame Arrow... use that spell with Energy substitution several times... and all the fighter needs is Haste.

Edit: Yeah, the +5 for comp bow rating was 3.0.

 

[Slaved]

The fighter hits better and does more damage as long as the cleric does not use persistant Divine Power AND Divine Favor.

Using just greater magic weapon the cleric can either have a higher enhancement bonus with his bow than the fighter or more specials, depending on what sort of bow the fighter goes for. So the cleric is not really that far behind right there.

Adding in either divine power or divine favor just makes the cleric move up to even or pull ahead. Adding both and the cleric is certainly ahead. At least from just looking at the bow and arrow damage.

Two big advantages for the archer:
- More full attack actions with
- usually one more attack due to Rapid Shot.

Well yes, that is possible, that is why I asked if that was what was happening

Having the condition of being within 30' though really hampers the first one though as full attacks start happening a lot once people are within that close of a range. Dungeon crawls will make it very difficult to get that many more full attacks as well.

The possibility to "stack" weapon and ammunition special abilities offers nice opportunities if you have some buddies who help you with buff spells like Flame Arrow... use that spell with Energy substitution several times... and all the fighter needs is Haste.

Using buddies abilities to say that he is a good archer seems kindof cheap somehow. It is of course true that other people helping him out that way will make him better but the same could be said for most other archer builds as well.

Edit: Yeah, the +5 for comp bow rating was 3.0.

That is a very strange restriction. I am glad that they got rid of it.

 

[Darklone]

Using just greater magic weapon the cleric can either have a higher enhancement bonus with his bow than the fighter or more specials, depending on what sort of bow the fighter goes for. So the cleric is not really that far behind right there.

Adding in either divine power or divine favor just makes the cleric move up to even or pull ahead. Adding both and the cleric is certainly ahead. At least from just looking at the bow and arrow damage.
...
Using buddies abilities to say that he is a good archer seems kindof cheap somehow. It is of course true that other people helping him out that way will make him better but the same could be said for most other archer builds as well.

Buddies abilities... wands. Some UMD or a few levels multiclass and the fighter can use these buffs himself... or his buddies help him. Long duration buffs. Apply and enter dungeon.