What's wrong with Mini-Centric?

[Simia Saturnalia]

I'm aware some people love minis, but for myself and my group they re-introduce too much wargame.

 

[Jhaelen]

Well, mini's are fine in some respects, and to each his/her own, but...

in my opinion, the overuse of mini's makes the game more of a tactical combat game rather then a role playing game.

That's what I dislike about them, too. Still, they're very useful to resolve combats in D&D 3E.

 

[WhatGravitas]

A mini-centric game is... too formal. A beautiful thing in D&D is the fudgability. If you INSIST on minis, you take that away from groups who like that.

And while I dig miniatures and started to paint miniatures myself recently, while I like the tactical aspect of miniatures, I can totally feel the problems, that minis sometimes have:

I love minis in a fight-heavy campaign (APs, RHoD, many of my campaigns, Eberron pulp), I find them useful in many other campaigns (Eberronian intrigue, i.e. noir), but I abhor them in some atmospheric settings, like say Ravenloft (the CS, not the adventure). Ravenloft with minis? WAAAAAY to ruin the atmosphere. Same for full-fledged CoC campaigns (unless you only talk about buttkickery against Lovecraftian horrors, then they're cool).

Cheers, LT.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Using minis turns what could be a simple 10 minute combat into an an hour long game of D&D tactical chess.

 

[Psion]

For me what torqued me off about 3.5 was the use of the battlemat at the rules arbiter.

Using minis as a means of keeping things straight and recalling and tracking where everything and everyone is at is very convenient. (I'll even use the mat out of combat in cities to remember which groups are together.)

But what I hated was how the rules in 3.5 moved from rules that relied on the GM's or designer's interpretation of the situation (e.g., the cover and concealment rules) to rules that had you tracing lines on the battlemat. A tracing lines on a battlemat simply cannot capture nuances like "the kobolds shooting from behind a barricade of rotted timbers", etc.

 

[an_idol_mind]

I prefer playing without minis for two reasons. First, it means I can play D&D most anywhere, be it on a table top or in a car during a long road trip. Second, adding minis as an essential part of the game increases the investment needed to play the game. The core books already require close to a $100 buy-in, and adding minis makes the hobby even more expensive to get into. It's a good business model for WotC, I guess, but making the game reliant on minis would be something that would drive me away immediately.

 

[JDJblatherings]

to the economic argument-

So don't use the WOTC d&D figures, there are dozen of other manufacturers out there. Or any figures at all use counter, or paper stand-ups. The economics of mini/battlemat use isn't a barrier.

to the "becomign more miniatures based" argument-

plese, enough of that, tha game was miniatures based on day 1. Everyone recall movement scores were listed in "Inches" ? Those were table top inches. sure 2nd edition has more abstract values...the same exact ones they just turned 12" into 12, the same score derived from/for miniatures use. The unique nature of the game allows one to not bother with a game board or miniatures if they wish but they were there and the rules were written with their presence in mind.

 

[JDJblatherings]

Using minis turns what could be a simple 10 minute combat into an an hour long game of D&D tactical chess.

Only if the DM let's that happen.

 

[Psion]

So don't use the WOTC d&D figures, there are dozen of other manufacturers out there. Or any figures at all use counter, or paper stand-ups.

Indeed. I use a large paper punch and Fiery Dragon's Counter Collections (and space TCG cards, like those free WoW TCG and Warlord TCG cards I got at gencon) and glue them to 3/8" washers. Not only is it a very economical alternative, they still are very attractive, and they are much more portable than minis.

plese, enough of that, tha game was miniatures based on day 1.

Eh, sorry, no. I don't mind using minis as a facilitator, but I find the increased reliance on them a negative trend in the rules of the game and I'll join in the voices of those who feel likewise.

 

[Presto2112]

A mini-centric game is... too formal. A beautiful thing in D&D is the fudgability. If you INSIST on minis, you take that away from groups who like that.

It doesn't have to.

One of the things I'm considering doing in my game, in order to bring in an element of "the heat of battle" is to try to eliminate square counting. What I mean is, to keep players from examining the battlemat for a full 30 seconds to determine the absolute optimal square intersect to center a fireball, or the bestest place to place a dimension door. I'll give players five seconds + 1 second per Intelligence score bonus of the PC to figure out where you're gonna place your stuff; after that, you either just pick a spot or you lose your action.

Again, just considering.

I may also get this moved to House Rules.