What's wrong with Mini-Centric?

[Shortman McLeod]

I personally never use minis, just my preference, so as I see the game moving towards minis-only play, it makes me less excited about playing it, and as someone without a lot of capital at my fingertips, it makes the game less feasible as a pastime option for me. There are other games I can play without needing a closet full of stuff to do so.

Edit: To say nothing of how focusing on a battlemat and minis turns the whole experience into more of a board game feel for me, and less of an interactive game whose purpose is creating great stories with your friends (not saying this is HOW TO PLAY, but rather this is how I like to play).

Just out of curiosity--and I'm really curious, I'm not dissin' you, Nlogue--how do you handle a complex combat scenario with, say, a party of five adventurers going up against, say, 10 goblins with various degrees of range, cover, etc., if you don't use minis?

I've often wondered how people can handle detailed, tactical combat scenarios without using minis, even though many people don't use them in their games.

 

[Shortman McLeod]

Well, mini's are fine in some respects, and to each his/her own, but...

in my opinion, the overuse of mini's makes the game more of a tactical combat game rather then a role playing game. The use of mini's is also, in my opinion, a factor that can limit the boundaries of one's imagination. The terrible troll is now no longer some image conjured in the mind, but a piece of plastic to be tactically and emotionlessly defeated using mathematical rules of movement and causes and effects (AoO etc.).

I get what you're saying, Whisper, but those "mathemetical rules of movement and causes and effects" that cause one to "tactically and emotionlessly" defeat the troll are the COMBAT RULES, doode! Isn't it a fact that you kind of "hafta" use minis to properly use the combat rules in 3.5?

Too much clarity leaves not enough room for imagination. although mini's are wonderful toys and in some instances can be very helpful explaining positions, personally I would rather play without them...

I agree with the point about minis limiting imagination, tho, as other folks have stated in this thread. Hmmm . . .

 

[Shortman McLeod]

Mini-centric is not roleplaying, it's a board game. Many people play role-lite, hack and slash dungeon crawls every time they play, and that's fine. It's possible to do both, or lean heavily to one side or the other.

Uh-oh. It's just a matter of time before someone hauls out the "role-playing vs. roll-playing" strawman . . . :\

 

[Shortman McLeod]

Another problem I have with mini's is that they actually create unrealistic combats. Real-life hand-to-hand combat is not orderly, and you don't really tend to get opportunities to create perfect tactical situations. You certainly don't have the benefit of a "top-down" view of the field! Movement and position are constantly changing in a way that the battlemat cannot, and will never be able to, accurately represent. For one thing, people move in more than 8 directions!

Your problem here is with the combat rules, not miniatures.

 

[carmachu]

"The game is becoming more mini centric" is a complaint I've hear a number of times. I don't understand it though. What's wrong with using minis in D&D?

Discuss.

There's nothing wrong with using minis. The problem comes in when you make said game miniature centric and THEN make getting said minis, by selling them in boxes that contain a random mixture, THAT is a problem.

Luckily I know someone who will paint them for me, so I get what I exactly need.

The random distrubition of something that you base the game around is a ponzi scheme....

 

[WhatGravitas]

The random distrubition of something that you base the game around is a ponzi scheme....

But then, the DDM line is not that hardtied into D&D. Nothing keeps you from using coins, dice, and sweets. Isn't the "mini-centric" complaint probably rather based on the fact, that WotC makes random minis, that may be used for D&D? I mean what have people thought about the TSR-licensed minis?

And I know that Reaper gets my money for minis, and I guess a fair amount of people use non-WotC minis as well (some friend of mine use their old Warhammer stuff).

Cheers, LT.

 

[AllisterH]

Yes and no. To a large extend you are correct, however, and I am talking in archetypes here, the knight will charge, even if maybe stealth is a better option, and this should not simply be the result of rules which make a knight more effective at charging, but should primarily be driven by the fact that it is in the nature of the personality of the knight to charge. Said knight could be a simple fighter in game mechanics terms, but FEELS himself a knight, and plays that ROLE.

No.

This makes no sense as you're basically saying that your "class" dictates your actions. This should NEVER be true IMO unless it's a class like the frenzied berserker where the class controls your actions.

Even a Long-ball hitter will put down a punt if the situation warrants it anjd saying "I'm a long ball hitter, I don't do punts" will get you strange looks.

 

[carmachu]

But then, the DDM line is not that hardtied into D&D. Nothing keeps you from using coins, dice, and sweets. Isn't the "mini-centric" complaint probably rather based on the fact, that WotC makes random minis, that may be used for D&D? I mean what have people thought about the TSR-licensed minis?

And I know that Reaper gets my money for minis, and I guess a fair amount of people use non-WotC minis as well (some friend of mine use their old Warhammer stuff).

Cheers, LT.

Actually, I dont buy intop the ponzi scheme. Yes that is my complaint. I wouldnt care that WotC sells them, but I dont want to buy into the same scheme for minis they use for magic cards.

A dear friend will paint minis I pick up(and does them well).I pick up minis on ebay in bulk, or I pick up individual ones on need basis. I also can and will use Warhammer, Ptolus minis, priavteer press....whatever looks good.

 

[Hussar]

I think there is some confusion between mini-centric and actual physical minis. There are many, many ways around the cost factor. Most people have a printer and a box full of 1 inch washers or poker chips is minimal. Rolling your own minis can cost as little as a couple of cents per mini.

I wasn't really referring to that though. The cost of DDM or Reaper minis isn't really the issue. I was more referring to the idea that the game focuses on mini based combat, rather than descriptive. What you actually use for minis is irrelavent IMO. I was wondering why people had such an issue with using minis (by which I mean some form of representation) to denote location on a battlemap.

 

[Clavis]

Your problem here is with the combat rules, not miniatures.

My problem is with the combat rules that assume the use of miniatures, and are written with miniatures in mind.