What's wrong with Mini-Centric?

[prosfilaes]

One nasty argument happened in a campaign I played in because minis weren't used in a particular encounter (despite a player asking that the DM draw it out), and the DM declared that that player's character was caught in a cone of fire (or the like; I don't recall). The player claimed that his character was out of range; he had stated he was staying back out of combat. The DM made it an issue and it got a bit ugly.

More reasonableness on both DM and player would have helped, but it's hard to tell where spell effects are going without minis. It's easy to feel that a DM is being unfair by leaving certain targets out or catching the whole party in a spell, and it's easy for a DM to be unfair. Is the party lined up for a lightning bolt or grouped for a fireball? In a minis system, it's easy to point to the party on a map, but without that, unless they're in tight quarters, they can almost always plausibly claim they wouldn't be grouped like that, and probably honestly.

If I feel like my character can do nothing to position himself so he doesn't get hit with a fireball with the rest of the party, I'm going to be frustrated. If my character is always somehow out of the range of a fireball no matter what, the DM may get frustrated, as well might the other players. Minis makes it clear when the party can position itself so not to be all caught in a fireball, and makes it clear when the DM can catch them all in a fireball.

Yes, less tactical games could change that, but I'm thinking about the games I've played. A good DM and more accepting (probably less tactical) players would help this, but I am who am and the DMs I've played with are often less than perfect.

 

[megamania]

I like to use figures for the very reasons said above.

However, I understand people's thought about being railroaded into buying more stuff. This is where tokens and coins and dice work.

 

[wayne62682]

In my experience, minis turn DnD into a boardgame, at least in feel. We had a bunch of guys who would argue over every frigging square, and make weird round-about circles in order to engage targets without attracting AOO's. I mean, in a fight, are you going to charge straight at a badguy or go left 10', forward 10', right 15', then forward 5'? This happened a LOT, and changed the whole attitude of the game. Not to mention the time lost as the players charted their course to where they wanted to be. It was like chess, where the move doesn't count until you let go of the piece.

Agree 100% with this. That's been exactly my experience as well. Not to mention it's easy to tell when its "battle mode" because the DM draws out the area and busts out the figures.

 

[Professor Phobos]

"The game is becoming more mini centric" is a complaint I've hear a number of times. I don't understand it though. What's wrong with using minis in D&D?

Discuss.

There's nothing wrong with using them, but assuming them by default makes it more difficult to play without them. And since I never play with miniatures, it makes the game less appealing.

 

[WizarDru]

Not to mention it's easy to tell when its "battle mode" because the DM draws out the area and busts out the figures.

Wouldn't that also be the case when he asks you to roll initiative? I mean, what's the practical difference?

 

[R_kajdi]

This is what I don't understand.

Why is it considered *good* that people IGNORE the terrain/situation and just attack? In the real world, if you try to attack the back lines while totally ignoring the front lines, you're going to get massacred.

So why is this considered *realistic* if the same situation occured in a D&D game? Are the characters somehow immune to this?

I think it's just that someon people don't want to deal with all the tactical aspects of combat. I'm not saying this in a negative or positive way, it's simply a playstyle choice. I'd personally feel better if the game had less tactical rules, with an add on for tactical combat. Right now, it's still a little more "One True Way"-ish for my tastes. But then again, I think the idea of a shared universal rules set being a huge gain isn't as important as some other people think.