What's wrong with the single-classed Ranger?

[kibbitz]

I have. Nevertheless, I believe there is a section in the PHB that states that new spells can be added to the core spell lists, and gives rules/guidelines for doing so. So Hunter's Mercy is supported by the PHB. Heh heh. One of the perks of being a spellcaster....

Fair enough. Still, the adding of spells requires thought on the part of the DM as to game balance. I guess perhaps ConcreteBuddha doesn't feel this as being balanced? Not speaking on your behalf, just guessing. Anyone has balance issues regarding this spell?

Regardless, the Favored Enemy bonuses are extremely underrated. At 10th level the Ranger has the equivalent of Weapon Specialization with any weapon when fighting his first Favored Enemy. That's WS against any human, aberration, magical beast, dragon; which ever one you chose. At 20th level, five Favored Enemies, 4 of which the Ranger has Weapon Specialization against or better covers an incredibly broad palette of enemies.

Well, they work in a different way compared to WS, as you know. WS works against all enemies with a weapon of choice, FE works only against the enemy of choice. This means that FE has a chance of not coming into play, depending on how your DM structures the campaign. WS is almost assured.

The Fighter is great because he gets to spend his feats on multiple feat trees. All the Ranger has to do is spend his character feats on the best/most desirable fighting style and stick to it. Then he can contribute in any situation just like a Fighter but has so much more in settings that allow for use of his spells and skills.

Fighters have combat flexibility, Rangers have preset abilities which allow them to function better than Fighters under certain conditions. However, this is true for any other class, so I really don't see a point to this. Considering that a Fighter has that many more feats possible, there is no way that a Ranger can offer the exact amount and "quality" of "contribution" that a Fighter can in combat. By this, I don't mean they aren't effective combatants, just that it's only logical that they won't contribute the same effectiveness as fighters overall.

Should you wish to dispute this, let me point out that this is not considering the Ranger's arsenal of magic. This is from a purely feat/BAB/HP view, and the Ranger obviously has less feats. Take all the TWF bonuses built into the class, and take your pick of combat feats. Fighters can do the same, and will still have feats left over to do extra stuff.

As for the skills and spells, now that's a totally different kettle of fish. Not having played any 3E, I'm not really in a position to comment as to their effectiveness, but having more skill points to play with should be a very valuable advantage.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I don't think is should. If these type of people are abusing the class, then it's the people at fault and not the class.

Game balance is hardly the end all and be all of game design, but a balance flaw is nonetheless a design flaw unless it serves a clear campaign purpose.

The peculiar benefits of rangerhood could easily have been more spread out over 3 or more levels. This approach doesn't seem to have been a problem for paladins, barbarians, or rogues, frex.

 

[Psyduck]

I've searched this whole thread for one basic thing the ranger has, and no one said it yet...

ANIMAL COMPAINS!!!!!!

Can a fighter compare to a ranger with a friend??? Sure, he may only have one, whereas the druid may have 2, but the ranger himself can be more of a threat than a druid, and thus the druid has 2 friends for balance.

A 4th level Ranger can snag a dire bat. What else better to help scout? Rangers can also get better animals when they level, so why not prepare a few magic fang spells???

While I agree that a 15th lv Ranger with summon IV sucks, A Ranger that has that spell and a dire bear is downright scary. We can even leave out summon IV, and use polymorph with a dire bear. Does a high level Ranger look a bit better now?

My favorite class is a Ranger, and single classed btw. High skills, HP,BAB,Fav enemy, minor spells, and animal companions spell versatility. Compared to any other class, that versatility is lost.

Did I mention the twf/ambi feats? No, and because they really aren't necessities. They are just extras. If your Ranger archer is cornered, he'll probably be glad he can duel wield

 

[Yellow Sign]

You would have to agree there are a few things that just don't make sense with a Ranger. Why would you take Undead as a favored enemy. WOW! I get a bonus to track those skeletons and bluff that zombie.

 

[Crothian]

You would have to agree there are a few things that just don't make sense with a Ranger. Why would you take Undead as a favored enemy. WOW! I get a bonus to track those skeletons and bluff that zombie.

There's a very good defensive option in Masters of the Wild that allows the bonus to apply to AC and more useful skills.

 

[The Souljourner]

Originally posted by green slime
Is every threat in your game a Mature Blue Dragon?

In a 15th level party? Yes! Maybe not exactly a Mature Blue Dragon, but the equivalent, and often even more difficult.

At those levels, I hardly call Freedom of Movement, Nondetectionand Polymorph Self as non-useful spells...two of those actually have combat applications, should the Ranger be so inclined.

Nondetection is @ss, pure and simple. 7 hours of anti-scrying? Whoopee. Can it be handy? Sure. Is it going to be handy more than once or twice in a campaign? I seriously doubt it (of course the exact nature of the campaign can have a huge impact on the usefulness of this and every other spell and ability). Freedom of movement can be good, simply because it's so bad no other caster will bother with it. Polymorph has been seriously nerfed, but can still be useful in many situations. Ironically, I think it's a little too flashy and dramatic for the ranger's usual low profile magic style. But I can't say it isn't an awesome spell. So I'll give you that.

Still, I have to say that a ranger is easily the weakest caster in the game. If he only got a few more skill points and skills, I think he'd be fairly well balanced.

I'm going to try a single classed ranger in the next campaign I'm in. We'll see how it goes. (Don't hold your breath, it's not set to start for at least 6 months)

And I'd just like to say that it's nice to have a rational, well thought out discussion on a controversial topic without everyone going at each other's throats.

-The Souljourner

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

You would have to agree there are a few things that just don't make sense with a Ranger. Why would you take Undead as a favored enemy. WOW! I get a bonus to track those skeletons and bluff that zombie.

Maybe tracking skeletons and bluffing a zombie aren't significant, but bonusses to spot and sense motive against a vampire are sure helpful. A bonus to bluff the Lich Lord of doom doesn't hurt either. Undead may not be the best favored enemy selection out there but it can be quite helpful when dealing with intelligent undead.

Re: Favored enemies--at low levels they may not be too significant and may not come up too often however, at high levels, a ranger can have enough favored enemies that it'll probably be useful in half of the encounters in any given module.

Re: A fighter with track being comparable to a ranger--don't kid yourself. A fighter with track will have to spend half of his skill points every level just to be half as good a tracker as a ranger who spends a quarter of his skill points every level. The 20th level ranger will probably have over +26 to track--maybe even enough to track a falcon on a cloudy day. OTOH, the 20th level fighter will be lucky to have +13 to his track roll. He'll have trouble following a lone goblin over a week-old trail. (And the ranger still has 3+int bonus skills per level left; the fighter only has 1+int bonus).

Re: Entangle at high levels. At high levels it will still be quite useful in the wilderness. Entangle is a radius and can affect trees and vines not just grass. Even flying foes aren't immune. Even if it's true that many monsters will make the save and/or have enough strength to break free (they need a 48 strength for that to be a foregone conclusion though), it still slows their movement and many foes (wizards, sorcerors, etc) are unlikely to have the strength to break free. If the adventure isn't taking place in environments where entangle is useful, the ranger can prepare something else. (Alarm is a pretty good utility spell and magic fang never hurt anyone's animal companion).

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Nondetection is @ss, pure and simple. 7 hours of anti-scrying? Whoopee. Can it be handy? Sure. Is it going to be handy more than once or twice in a campaign? I seriously doubt it (of course the exact nature of the campaign can have a huge impact on the usefulness of this and every other spell and ability). Freedom of movement can be good, simply because it's so bad no other caster will bother with it. Polymorph has been seriously nerfed, but can still be useful in many situations. Ironically, I think it's a little too flashy and dramatic for the ranger's usual low profile magic style. But I can't say it isn't an awesome spell. So I'll give you that.
[/B]

Non-Detection is far more than anti-scrying. It's anti-divination. An invisible character with non-detection running can't reliably be detected by See Invisibility. It also confounds detect alignment, detect undead, deathwatch, detect magic, etc. It's not a spell that'll be useful in every campaign but it can be put to great effect.

Freedom of Movement is much better than you make it out to be as well. Immunity to holds, web, slow (a very important one), solid fog/acid fog/cloudkill movement reduction, and the ability to function normally underwater are quite good.

Rangers also have very good elemental protection spells on their list. Resist Elements is a first level ranger spell and protection from elements a 2nd level one.

All told, I think the PHB ranger spell list holds up to the paladin spell list fairly well. Entangle to bless weapon. Protection from elements to Heal Mount. Polymorph Self to Holy Sword. Hunter's Mercy stacks up to Divine Sacrifice and Zeal too.

The ranger spell list may not be as good as the bard, cleric, druid, sorceror, or wizard lists but ranger's aren't primarily spellcasters.

 

[Terramotus]

My biggest problems with the ranger are that, in the PH, his spell lists are too little, too late. Furthermore, his species enemy are so non-useful as to be non-existent. Flat-out, in order for them to be successful, he has to make his choices based on what type of campaign the DM is running. The DM may not be willing to give out that much information. Or the DM may not even be running a campaign of the type where he can generalize much about what sort of enemies the players'll be facing (like mine is now).

His virtual feats are also useless unless you want to go for a specific archetype (the two-weapon fighter). And though you're perfectly welcome to ignore them, it's a bit galling to give up such a perk. A lot is made of the skills too. True, they are great to have, but how much mileage you get out of them relative to combat type stuff also depends heavily on the campaign.

The spell list has gotten better with the release of successive books. Monte's ranger, however, gives too much, in my opinion.

What I do is take away the virtual feats and give one bonus feat at 1st level, and then every 4 levels (4th, 8th, etc). About half the fighter progression. It still provides a darn good reason to take levels of fighter instead of a ranger, and evens things out slightly. I also allow the choice of either a favored enemy or favored terrain.

 

[1337 h4xor]

For the epic Ranger, every Hunter's Mercy or natural critical means a Fort save or die. Epic Spells aren't even out of reach.

why would this be true? did you skip the section of the epic book telling you to throw out death by massive damage?



Either way, the standard ranger is a 1 trick pony. He's forced into 2wf and his favored enemy is completely up to the dm as to when it's used. He has to multiclass to prcs or other classes to be worth anything as is.

although at 5th level he can summon some squrills and you should neve underestimate those cuddly guys. even low level dragons are afraid of d4 of those nut lovers.