When a warrior stands at the wrong end of a crossbow...

[Sravoff]

You'd have to be a Community Support & buy an account, rather than the free one you have.

Freeloafer

You appear to my eyes to also be a "freeloafer"

 

[I'm A Banana]

It's slightly an issue of genre.

The hero had just flung open the door to the closet where the Baron was cowering, only to find to his horror it was empty...

"Turn around slowly and make no sudden moves..."

Our hero turns slowly to see the baron, light crosbow in hand smirking at our unfortunate hero... Or is the hero so unfortunate?

Under standard D&D rules, this is absolutly no problem for a character of higher level than say three at most, and most first level fighter types can take the bolt and roceed to give the baron a fight any way.

Has any one come up with any rules governing this?

My own personal opinion is that the rules already do it well.

"Turn around slowly and make no sudden moves..." says the petty evil baron.
The hero whirls around in a flash of steel and beheads him (wins initiative, rolls, hits, deals fatal damage).
"Don't make threats you can't back up."

OR
The hero flings open the door to the closet where the Baron was hiding, triggering the hidden rune that paralyzes him. The baron puts a bolt through his head.

OR
any one of a million variations.

He's a HERO, man! Why should he be affraid of a petty baron! If the baron's high-level with good equipment, if he EARNS the fear by being a villain instead of just a mook, maybe he'll be worthy of it. But no true hero would fear death at the hands of a simple petty lord.

 

[Nyaricus]

You appear to my eyes to also be a "freeloafer"

nope, I'm a registered user, mang.

Whaa?

 

[airwalkrr]

Our hero turns slowly to see the baron, light crosbow in hand smirking at our unfortunate hero... Or is the hero so unfortunate?

Under standard D&D rules, this is absolutly no problem for a character of higher level than say three at most, and most first level fighter types can take the bolt and roceed to give the baron a fight any way.

Although it is not perfect, I have a suggestion for dealing with the situation. In any case where an opponent has the drop on a character and readies an action to fire a crossbow at said character if he makes any sudden moves, treat any hit as an automatic critical threat. If the critical threat is confirmed, then resolve the attack like a coup de grace, only you might want to lower the DC since the defender is not truly helpless. Perhaps DC 5 + damage dealt would be appropriate. Just the threat of a chance at having to roll a Fort save versus death would probably be enough to divert most PCs from taking hasty action.

 

[airwalkrr]

Another thought occurs to me. Since not all weapons work in the same way, perhaps the ability to threaten in this manner should be limited by weapon type. For instance, I am not going to be afraid of someone pushing a hammer up against my head and saying, "Gimmie your money or I'll bash your head open." That gives me at least the time between pulling the hammer back and letting go with a swing for me to get out of the way. However, I would be quite afraid of a buccaneer poking a rapier at my back and saying "Gimmie the booty or I runs ya through!"

So perhaps whenever you get the drop on someone such that you have a piercing weapon immediately directed at a vital area and are within 5 feet of the individual, you can ready an action to stab or shoot them if they are flat-footed. Any attack made under these conditions automatically hits and is an automatic critical threat. If the threat is confirmed, the target must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or fall immediately to -9 hp. This way, you aren't completely screwed if you get caught in this situation. There is always the possibility that the threat is not confirmed, but if it does and you fail a Fortitude save you are beaten but not dead. Now the baron in question would have a hard time sticking it to a whole party this way, but at least it isn't instant death like the coup de grace rules. Obviously the tactic doesn't work on creatures immune to critical hits. As an added balance, this tactic doesn't work on characters with uncanny dodge, adding a bit of panache to such characters. "Haha, baron! You forgot I am quicker than the eye!"

 

[Geoff Watson]

The problem with making it 'coup de grace' on surprise attacks, is that the PCs can do it too. Will your villians surrender immediately?

With invisibility, or high hide and move silently, even just luck can turn any encounter into 'save or die'. Even 5+damage can be very high for a saving throw (since it's automatically a critical).

Geoff.

 

[airwalkrr]

The problem with making it 'coup de grace' on surprise attacks, is that the PCs can do it too. Will your villians surrender immediately?

With invisibility, or high hide and move silently, even just luck can turn any encounter into 'save or die'. Even 5+damage can be very high for a saving throw (since it's automatically a critical).

Geoff.

I don't have much of a problem with sneaky PCs IMC. Most of them just like to bash down the door. But I have no problem giving them an advantage like this if they are good planners and manage to sneak into the villain's super-fortified layer without being detected (read: virtually impossible). The thing is, I rarely see it. Sneakiness is something fairly lost on 3e, which favors the "bash in the door and swing big heavy objects" approach. Plus, by limiting the type of weapons with which this tactic is usuable and the type of creatures it can be used against, it limits it to a fairly small subset of villains. It would be hard to get the drop on a lot of your BBEGs, like giants or demons, in this way.

 

[librarius_arcana]

I'm the Sage of House Rules

No you're not I am

 

[Land Outcast]

I don't have much of a problem with sneaky PCs IMC. Most of them just like to bash down the door. But I have no problem giving them an advantage like this if they are good planners and manage to sneak into the villain's super-fortified layer without being detected (read: virtually impossible). The thing is, I rarely see it. Sneakiness is something fairly lost on 3e, which favors the "bash in the door and swing big heavy objects" approach. Plus, by limiting the type of weapons with which this tactic is usuable and the type of creatures it can be used against, it limits it to a fairly small subset of villains. It would be hard to get the drop on a lot of your BBEGs, like giants or demons, in this way.

I thank airwalkrr for writting down my thoughts on the matter

 

[drexes]

Well, I'm going to have to disagree. In the campaigns I've played and run in 3.x, sneakiness has been really prevalent. Our current campaign is made up of entirely sneaky characters, with no brick in the bunch. And despite having no good equipment (only one +1 weapon in the party and it's cursed, and no other magic items at all) the group is incredibly devastating (currently 12th level). Giving them the coup de grace ability could be really dangerous so I understand the reluctance of some. After all, the BBEG's of our last few adventures have been human or humanoid. I know I suggested the coup de grace, but I would never put it IMC. I think this boils down to a problem which hass to be handled in each campaign in its own unique way. What's appropriate in one style of play will be broken in another.