When Did Cleric Spell Selection Change?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Sure he grants spells- his Domains are Fists, Feet, Total Gym and Your Butt.

 

[Scribble]

Sure he grants spells- his Domains are Fists, Feet, Total Gym and Your Butt.

Wouldn't he have rangers instead of paladins though?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

His followers could freely multiclass with Ranger and Monk...and could FoB with anything they could wield.

Including enemies!

 

[JeffB]

The stuff written in the 1E DMG is not necessarily representative of how people played the game. I think the rules were much less uniform then, and reading about a rule doesn't always mean that's what people were using. For one thing, IMO you can't underestimate the effect that the Basic DnD game had on what rules people used in ADnD (and what rules people understood). Also IME alot of people used some variants from Dragon Magazines and houserules for things. There's also some indication (ex. Fiend Folio) that some folks were playing ADnD with Original DnD terminology and rules in some cases.

IME people played clerics spell acquisition the same as in later editions - DMs aren't that much different - no DM wants to tell a player "no" unless there's some egregious behavior involved, and there's not much reason to. In our games your cleric picked his spells without any real intervention by the DM. The only real intervention was for alignment infractions, and that affected all spells, not just the particular selection.

Of course individual experiences vary, I'm sure people played 1E all kinds of ways, but saying something like "in the old days, people did such and such" and basing that on what was written in the 1E DMG (and a sprawling tome that is) is risky.

Excellent post and agreed. Especially as regards to Basic D&D- I found most games of the late 70s/early 80s I played in/witnessed/ran to be a hybrid using the simpler O/B/D&D mechanics for most things and the AD&D classes/spells/monsters/weapon lists, etc. i.e all the expanded options. I never played with anyone who did AD&D combat remotely RAW. Many of us were playing a OD&D/BD&D roll a D6 for initiative or high Dex goes first thing, for example.

As much as some people complain about it, I truly believe 2E was far closer to how 1E AD&D was actually played by a significant chunk if not a majority of AD&D players.

 

[Thondor]

Many of us were playing a OD&D/BD&D roll a D6 for initiative or high Dex goes first thing, for example.

I would like to point out that roll a d6 for initiative was the 1e rule. To be more exact role a d6, the group that wins (i.e. the monsters or the adventurers) go first, loser goes second. Then reroll for the next round. (Which could easily lead to going twice in a row.) There was no modifier unless the whole group had a bonus.

I could wax on about this and give a reference if desired but it's off topic. (I was reading it yesterday.)

 

[Thondor]

Now more on topic. As is frequently done in 3e the power is out of the DM's hands. 3e does specify that clerics can't cast spells with a alignment descriptor opposed to his or his dieties alignement (p. 33 Chaotic/Evil/Good/lawful spells). I wonder how often this is really followed.
Who doesn't want to be able to cast Protection from Good and Cure spontaneously.
Clearly true neutral is the best cleric alignment.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I follow that rule.

Casting harm spells- especially if you have the Feat Reach Spell- can be quite nasty. You can always get healing potions, after all.

 

[JeffB]

I would like to point out that roll a d6 for initiative was the 1e rule.

True dat. However we were using a 1D6 roll before the DMG came out What I was specifically saying was that we were basically using a simple 3E -esque (gasp) initiative system-roll your initiative and then you took your action on your turn-cast spell, attack, etc. No "intent", then roll, No segments to worry about, etc... none of the minutiae of the 1E surprise/initiative system. We did re-roll each round. As I said this was before anyone got hold of a DMG-when I started playing this was how the group I played with did initiative, and I/we continued to do so even after the DMG arrived.


back to the topic at hand
/end hijack

 

[Korgoth]

Chuck Norris doesn't grant spells... He grants FISTS!

Sometime someone somewhere needs to play a Paladin of Chuck Norris. That would be too cool.

 

[WayneLigon]

In the "old days" clerics would pray to receive a new spell, but it wasn't a guarantee that they would actually get it. Their god (the Dm) would decide whether or not to give it to them... I guess this fucntioned in a similar fashion to Wizards only getting spells the DM put into the game.

Did this change in 2e? It's been so long I can't really remember... But I don't recall having Cleric spell selection limited.*

As far as any game I've ever been in, Clerics always received their full list in any edition. That was the big advantage to balance out the more defensive nature of the spells.

Cleric spell availability in 2E was sometimes limited by the deity if you were using Specialty Priests.