D&D General When Did Counterspell First Appear?

[nevin]

I've been trying to hunt down the first appearance of Counterspell in D&D and I can't seem to figure it out. The farthest back that I'm able to find it is in 3e; is that truly when it first entered the official spell lists, or was it earlier? Does anyone here know?

Ght have been 3rd edition. 1ed if the caster took any damage or was knocked down the spell was list, 2nd edition added concentration checks to not the spell. It's also possible it happened in the messy 2.5 to 3 transitions phase she prestige classes started to appear in 3rd party stuff.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Ght have been 3rd edition. 1ed if the caster took any damage or was knocked down the spell was list, 2nd edition added concentration checks to not the spell. It's also possible it happened in the messy 2.5 to 3 transitions phase she prestige classes started to appear in 3rd party stuff.

I think you mixed up the editions.

1e and 2e spells were automatically disrupted if you were hit while casting.

3e introduced a concentration check to avoid disruption.

 

[toucanbuzz]

The farthest back that I'm able to find it is in 3e; is that truly when it first entered the official spell lists, or was it earlier? Does anyone here know?

Earlier, much earlier! Back to 1971...

Chainmail (1971): When an enemy wizard casts a spell, roll a target number on 2d6 to counter it. It was an innate feature of a wizard, though, not an actual spell. Before D&D, Gygax co-authored Chainmail, the precursor to D&D that started as mass warfare rules and moved into fantasy individual gaming with elves and dwarves. This is the first place I could find the idea of counterspell in D&D origins.

OD&D: Dispel Magic introduced as a 3rd level spell, but as written it only dispels existing effects. There's no "counterspell" now.

AD&D 1E & 2E: Dispel Magic text is changed to specifically say it counters enemy spells (IF you cast it while they are in the process of casting). In those editions, spells took segments to cast (ex. in 5E terms, I'm casting fireball starting on initiative 14 and ending on 8), and you picked your spellcasting before initiative was rolled. Someone would have to finish casting their dispel magic between 14 and 8 to counterspell, success was 50/50 (modified by the stronger caster), and even if you got the timing right, you might use a 3rd level spell to counter something lower.

D&D 3E: Dispel Magic kept the counterspell feature but eliminated it affecting "instantaneous" spells. It then added a Ready to Counterspell action. If you could make a check to identify the enemy spell AND had the same spell prepared, you could sacrifice that spell to counter, even if divine vs. arcane or instantaneous.

D&D 5E: Sage Advice and errata 2016 specifically says Dispel Magic cannot counter a spell as being cast. Rather, it can dispel an ongoing effect like hold person. You could take the Ready action to dispel any enemy effect after it happened, but not stop it from happening. That's what counterspell is for.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Back in 1e, there were a few spells that specifically negated each other (such as haste negating slow). They weren't set up to negate the other as they were cast, rather, they negated a spell presumably already in effect. So while that's a counter, it's a limited comparison.

There is also the effects of the Staff of the Magi, which has the power to "... absorb magic-user spell energy directed at its wielder..." but there is no further explanation as to how this function works, except to say that absorption is a distinct action which prevents immediate (IE the same round) utilization of the absorbed energy. I've always seen it ruled to be basically similar to any other item activation, which takes up your action for the round. Rod of Absorption works in a similar fashion. These are about as close as you get in AD&D to anything resembling 'countermagic'.

 

[Gadget]

Barring some more obscure source books, 5e is the first Edition that had a common spell listed in the PHB to specifically counter other spells as they are cast. Previous editions had various methods of counter another caster's spells: usually just casting dispel magic, or the reverse of a particular spell (Stone to Flesh to counter Flesh to Stone, Enlarge to counter Reduce, Shield to counter Magic Missile). There were some ways to counter an opposing spell as it is cast, but that usually involved readying an action to cast Dispel Magic or the specific spell that counters the one being cast, so it was rarely used due to the likelihood of losing a turn.

IMHO, these methods were fine, even if rarely used.

 

[Rabulias]

There were also things like AD&D 1st edition's ring of spell turning and the volley spell, which are counterspell-ish.

 

[Rabulias]

In my setting I have a dozen spells related to Counterspell. Some examples...

Thanks for sharing these ideas! Care to share full spell details for all of them?

 

[jmartkdr2]

Barring some more obscure source books, 5e is the first Edition that had a common spell listed in the PHB to specifically counter other spells as they are cast. Previous editions had various methods of counter another caster's spells: usually just casting dispel magic, or the reverse of a particular spell (Stone to Flesh to counter Flesh to Stone, Enlarge to counter Reduce, Shield to counter Magic Missile). There were some ways to counter an opposing spell as it is cast, but that usually involved readying an action to cast Dispel Magic or the specific spell that counters the one being cast, so it was rarely used due to the likelihood of losing a turn.

IMHO, these methods were fine, even if rarely used.

The problem with most of them is they were too situational: either you needed just the right spell, or to ready an action (or the equivalent) in order to do it, which made countering very rarely used.

What people want, I think, is Harry Potter-style spell duels where I can shoot my magic at your magic and they cancel. Complex rules for making it happen get in the way of this. But it can't be so easy to do that too many spells get countered (because having your own spell get countered isn't very fun). It's a tough balance, and aside from some tweaking I think making counterspell a spell is a good answer.

(Tweaks I would do: it's always a check, but the slot level used to cast adds to the check.)

 

[Guest 7034872]

Back in 1e, there were a few spells that specifically negated each other (such as haste negating slow). They weren't set up to negate the other as they were cast, rather, they negated a spell presumably already in effect. So while that's a counter, it's a limited comparison.

Yes, these I remember well. One could counteract Light with Darkness, but as you say, it wasn't really a Counterspell-like effect; it was nearer to Dispel Magic.

Thanks, Gadget: that answers my question, and I really was struggling to figure out when this mechanism first formally entered the game (for all the reasons folks in this thread have mentioned--there were numerous ways of doing something counterspell-ish without actually having a spell expressly designed for such use).

 

[Weiley31]

Although we have Counter Spell and Dispel Magic in this edition, I still like (and allow) stuff in a similar vein ala Shield vs Magic Missile. So, if somebody casted Slow on the somebody in the party, I would totally allow somebody to counter that by casting the spell Haste on the same one that just got hit by Slow. Likewise if an enemy decided to use Haste on themselves, then a Wizard in the party could cast Slow to negate it as well.