When did WotC D&D "Jump the Shark"?

[Matt James]

The entire argument was set up with a statement that WotC is in shambles. It sets the tone before the premise of the argument is made.

ugh...

 

[Tony Vargas]

I assume that what the OP meant by 'WotC D&D' is simply D&D over the period that it's been owned by WotC, since the late 90s sometime.

D&D, on the whole, may have jumped the shark with Planescape, or, perhaps most compellingly, when it was acquired by the company that invented M:tG.

For me 4e took the plunge into waters it shouldn't have with the PH3.

 

[Mummolus]

Heroes of Shadow contains plenty of support for classes from PHBI (Wizard and Cleric spring immediately to mind), so I guess we're safe. Whew! That was a close one.

Right, and when we see anything for Runepriest, Seeker, Artificer, or even new builds that aren't "subclasses", then I'll agree with you. Why not try to contribute something in the meantime?

 

[Matt James]

Right, and when we see anything for Runepriest, Seeker, Artificer, or even new builds that aren't "subclasses", then I'll agree with you. Why not try to contribute something in the meantime?

Was your last sentence to in response to that poster, or to WotC?

 

[ppaladin123]

Try to separate the game from the business. 4e might be a wonderful game but the decisions WotC has made and the problems that have plagued their recent endeavors do not bode well for their business. I think the system has all sorts of ways to continue to grow and stay fresh. Whether the d&d division at WotC will survive to make them is another story.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Heroes of Shadow contains plenty of support for classes from PHBI (Wizard and Cleric spring immediately to mind), so I guess we're safe. Whew! That was a close one.

If your entire PHBI, II, III experience is clerics and wizards, then I guess you are right.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Heroes of Shadow contains plenty of support for classes from PHBI (Wizard and Cleric spring immediately to mind), so I guess we're safe. Whew! That was a close one.

Nope, it contains support for the Warpriest and Mage. It's just that a Cleric or Wizard can use most of it, too.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

From my point of view, as a D&D player since 1981, D&D jumped the shark when it became clear 4e was going to be so much of a transformation. It's like when Sam had sex with Diane on Cheers. A central dynamic of the show changed - as had several central dynamics of the game in 4e. And in both cases, the change was made to increase the customer base - ratings for Cheers, players for D&D. But for customers/viewers like me, too much is lost and the game/show enters a decline.

I fully accept that whether or not something has jumped the shark is subjective. You may not agree, but for me 4e's design is what sent D&D over the shark.

Phew, that was close. I thought this thread (which is about internal shark-jumping in 4e) lacked at least one post that encased the whole edition with sharky borders.
While it does add nothing to the discussion at hand, it is somewhat of a tradition to say that [edition +1] jumped the shark when [edition +0] ended. It's "there is only one Highlander movie" all over again.

 

[Stormonu]

From an historical perspective, when did 3.5E D&D jump the shark?

I wouldn't say "jumped the shark", so much as "I got off the bus because it wasn't going to my destination". And that was somewhere around DMG 2/PHB 2. By the time 4E rolled around, I just wasn't interested in keeping up.

4E Essentials seems to been a shift as well. As I understood it, it was supposed to be a subsection to bring in new players and "Classic" support would be resumed after the Essential products were out. Instead, I get the sense future releases will be built on Essentials roots, while "Classic" 4E will be slowly and quietly retired.

 

[TarionzCousin]

I think it was when they lost "Fonzie" [MENTION=51773]Scott_Rouse[/MENTION].

They can't jump the shark without Fonzie, right?