When did WotC D&D "Jump the Shark"?

[TheUltramark]

Well, honestly, the AuldGrump answered this, but, I think it bears repeating. TTRPG's are a pretty darn small hobby. Traditionally, you had D&D covering about 3/4 of the sales in that niche. That means that you had one company who was making enough money to be able to afford things like playtesting, high quality books, and various other bells and whistles.

If you fraction between two companies, now no one has enough money to develop bigger projects. Imagine WOTC, with half as much money coming in, trying to develop something like the DDI. As horrible as their online efforts have been, cut the budget in half and it's just not going to happen.

The theory goes, and I'm not sure if I ascribe to it, that having one large (ish) company servicing the hobby works better than a couple (or a bunch) of much smaller companies.

Again, it is my opinion, and I guess it's a minority, that there is enough d&d product already published to keep me and my friends playing d&d for about 57.5 more years - and while it would be sad to see, if Hasbro decided to shut down their caostwizards product line, or even just the D&d segment of said line, I'm certain I would get over it in short order.

 

[renau1g]

Again, it is my opinion, and I guess it's a minority, that there is enough d&d product already published to keep me and my friends playing d&d for about 57.5 more years - and while it would be sad to see, if Hasbro decided to shut down their caostwizards product line, or even just the D&d segment of said line, I'm certain I would get over it in short order.

It's not that you're a minority, it's that your "opinion" is rather short-sighted. Just like we (as a species) could burn fossil fuels, pollute the oceans, over fish, strip mine, dump toxic waste, clear-cut the rainforst, etc, etc. and it wouldn't affect us. It's that for the future of the hobby (ie the next generation of gamers), having a pair of smaller companies doing smaller projects might have a harder time pulling in new players or continuing to survive, etc.

Now the above is obviously a far extreme (future of the planet) vs. Wizards being shut down (a niche market, luxury item company).

 

[Aeolius]

Just like we (as a species) could burn fossil fuels, pollute the oceans, over fish, strip mine, dump toxic waste, clear-cut the rainforst, etc, etc. and it wouldn't affect us.

If we pollute the oceans, there would be no sharks to jump.

 

[TheUltramark]

It's not that you're a minority, it's that your "opinion" is rather short-sighted. Just like we (as a species) could burn fossil fuels, pollute the oceans, over fish, strip mine, dump toxic waste, clear-cut the rainforst, etc, etc. and it wouldn't affect us. It's that for the future of the hobby (ie the next generation of gamers), having a pair of smaller companies doing smaller projects might have a harder time pulling in new players or continuing to survive, etc.

Now the above is obviously a far extreme (future of the planet) vs. Wizards being shut down (a niche market, luxury item company).

so your contention is that there is NOT enough role playing game material currently published - and that for the sake of my great grandchildren D&D needs to continue to operate?

 

[billd91]

so your contention is that there is NOT enough role playing game material currently published - and that for the sake of my great grandchildren D&D needs to continue to operate?

No. I think his contention is that the interests of your satisfaction, in the short term, aren't the same as the interests of the long term health of the hobby.

 

[TheUltramark]

No. I think his contention is that the interests of your satisfaction, in the short term, aren't the same as the interests of the long term health of the hobby.

I can't get my head around this
so....if in 50 years there isnt a D&D 10th edition, people won't still be gaming?
creative people won't still be publishing material related to gaming? Resources aimed at better gaming won't continue to be invented?

 

[Hussar]

Well, considering that D&D (in whatever form) constitutes the overwhelming majority of tabletop gaming, it's not too far of a stretch to think that if D&D were to fade off the shelves, tabletop gaming would fade into complete obscurity within a few years. It's not 50 years, it's 10 years.

Sure, you have a group right now that you play with. Fast forward ten years, your current group will likely have split up for a number of reasons - mostly real life stuff like moving, new jobs, kids, etc. You want to build a new group, because, for instance, you've just moved to a new city to take that great job.

But, gamer numbers have dwindled due to lack of support. No new gamers coming into the hobby means replacement doesn't happen. Groups fade out and nothing replaces them. In the suburbs, the traditional bastion of gaming, you'd probably be able to find groups, particularly in and around large centers, but, outside of that? Good luck.

Now, maybe online virtual tabletop will keep things going for some time, but, eventually, the number of people dropping out of the hobby will mean that even if you personally want to game, you won't be able to find anyone you want to game with.

That's the danger in having no support for the hobby.

To give a example, try finding a group of people to play Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Or Metamorphasis Alpha. Or Star Frontiers. Or the bajillion other OOP RPG's out there.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I only see that as likely if the Internet ceases to exist.

If I can easily find people to play RCFG, then a halfway decent GM should be able to find people to play Star Frontiers......'cause I suck.

YMMV.

 

[Hussar]

That's the point though RC. You can find a group to play RCFG because of your current situation. Imagine that D&D has been off the shelf for ten years, or is only stocked in very well stocked FLGS's in large cities. Now, move to a small city with no FLGS. Comic books stores? Sure, but no dedicated FLGS.

Now, let's see you find players for your game. Let's see someone who isn't the creator of the game, find players for your game.

 

[Raven Crowking]

That's the point though RC. You can find a group to play RCFG because of your current situation. Imagine that D&D has been off the shelf for ten years, or is only stocked in very well stocked FLGS's in large cities. Now, move to a small city with no FLGS. Comic books stores? Sure, but no dedicated FLGS.

Now, let's see you find players for your game. Let's see someone who isn't the creator of the game, find players for your game.

Funny, but I started in a small town with no comic book store, let alone a FLGS, where no one played D&D or had even heard of it AFAIK, yet I managed to find players, and I managed (as I later learned) to inspire another to take up DMing and found a gaming group whose first encounter with D&D was seeing me read the Holmes Basic book in the school library. D&D then, where I was, was less of a blip than D&D would be were it shelved 10 years now.

I sure had no trouble starting a game in Basic Training. I had people offering to polish my boots and make my bunk so that they could play.

I had no trouble starting a game anywhere I've ever lived.....big city, small town, no difference. It has never been a case with me of having too few players to choose from, even when the potential pool had never played a role-playing game before.

I have little doubt that, if D&D had been off the shelves for 10 years, and you plonked me down just about anywhere, I could raise interest in any game I chose to run. And I have little doubt that, a year later, it will again be a case of me deciding whether or not to let other players join, rather than wondering where to scare some players up from.

And, just to be clear, when I say "little doubt" I mean "none whatsoever".

And I'm just some guy. I'm sure that there are much, much better GMs than I am. I don't cater to players. I am willing to say No. I let the dice fall where they may. I choose what I am willing to run, and what kinds of characters I am willing to allow into the game.

If I can get a game, anywhere, and build it into more of a question of how to solve the "too many players for the available seats" problem, I am pretty sure that any halfway decent GM can do the same.

YMMV.


RC