When Do You (GM) Kill PCs?

[JoeGKushner]

Raise Dead, as is, is a big cheat. Especially if there are no consequences in game. Only one character in mycampaign has ever decided to be raised from the dead and they are still reaping the mental consquences of being ripped from heaven.

In game terms, how so? It's still a level loss that must be recouped per normal adventuring.

In non-game terms, I agree. it's why I try to avoid offing the characters in the first place.

 

[DonTadow]

My players come to the table for the story. If we wanted to play a no-story game, we'd haul out Axis & allies.

That said, my game is run like a TV show. Episodes, seasons, and lots of story. You will note that Hercules, Iolus, Xena, and Gabrielle all somehow survived to the end of the series. At our table, Death is a dramatic event, fully agreed to and often planned in advance by the players, usually to try out a new character concept.

Simply put: Any DM who askes for "sufficient background" is like a boss wh expects you to work overtime for free. Its not right, and its not fair. There's better use for someone's creative writing skills than random nameless canon fodder. If I knew a DM allowed the dice to work their will, no way in hell is he even getting a last name for my guy. And it will be My Guy. I'm not going to put any work into a personality or even a sense of identification with my playing piece if I know he's just "the next slab of meat" in any random encounter.

That sounds like you guys are doing a play rather than dungeons and dragons. You say you rehearse death scenes before the game/play? I hope everyone remembers their lines. Take the randomness out of the game? why roll dice at all if everyones going to win and the day is saved.

And I don't understand what you mean by dms whom ask for backgrounds from players? It completely contridicts your earlier statement about focusing on the story. Actually, it strongly contridicts it when your analogy. How can you even start to figure out a story if you don't know who the character's are. Sounds like a trainwreck...

 

[Old One]

Let the dice fall where they may...with caveats:

(1) My current homebrew provides very little access to raise magic.

(2) Implementation of modified GT action points provide some protection against bad dice rolling.

(3) I killed one PC due to a blown call and reversed it (with appropriate IG reasons/consequences/player consultation)

I will probably move away from the -10 or - CON score mechanic to a Fort Save mechanic, as mentioned by several above.

~ OO

 

[DonTadow]

In game terms, how so? It's still a level loss that must be recouped per normal adventuring.

In non-game terms, I agree. it's why I try to avoid offing the characters in the first place.

IN game terms the level loss is sufficient. But in non-game mechanics (role playiing terms) I think consquences should be just as important. Even iin the fantasy novels when someone comes back from the dead, even if they are weaker, they just ain't right for some reason. I like to play up on that with the character. A dream here and there. An occasional flashback or person reminds them of the thing that kills them. ecrt...

 

[Black Omega]

This is one of those questions I'm addressing for my next game. I'm considering looking up the Conan fate points and seeing exactly how they work. I like a sense of danger in the game and don't mind playing bad guys who will try very hard to kill PCs. But if the death toll gets too high, then people quit putting much time into creating characters.

 

[Mallus]

why roll dice at all if everyones going to win and the day is saved.

Note that there is a difference between 'everyone winning and the day being saved' and characters merely 'not dying'.

Death is one particular kind of PC failure (or obstacle). And in some games, not a particularly meaningful one. It depends on the kind of game you're playing. Death as the ultimate in player risk/loss isn't a given.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Raise Dead, as is, is a big cheat. Especially if there are no consequences in game. Only one character in mycampaign has ever decided to be raised from the dead and they are still reaping the mental consquences of being ripped from heaven.

The consequences are -1 level. As far as I'm concerned, that's a huge penalty. Also, saying it's a cheat is a misnomer. Semantics aside, it isn't any more a cheat than restoration, cure light wounds, or wish are.

 

[Blue_Kryptonite]

That sounds like you guys are doing a play rather than dungeons and dragons. You say you rehearse death scenes before the game/play? I hope everyone remembers their lines. Take the randomness out of the game? why roll dice at all if everyones going to win and the day is saved.

Plan, not rehearse. Like, "We plan there will be a Dragon this week". Its a different kind of thing. Sometimes, the player's dice never do get rolled during a session if the descriptive flow of combat is good enough. I always roll for the monsters, though.

And I don't understand what you mean by dms whom ask for backgrounds from players? It completely contridicts your earlier statement about focusing on the story. Actually, it strongly contridicts it when your analogy. How can you even start to figure out a story if you don't know who the character's are. Sounds like a trainwreck...

To clarify: No BG writing for killer DMs. Backgrounds are good for characters who will reliably continue at length.

 

[DonTadow]

Note that there is a difference between 'everyone winning and the day being saved' and characters merely 'not dying'.

Death is one particular kind of PC failure (or obstacle). And in some games, not a particularly meaningful one. It depends on the kind of game you're playing. Death as the ultimate in player risk/loss isn't a given.

But if the characters don't have the possiblities of dying more than likely they will save the day because, honestly, theres nothing stopping them. Its not the death that is important, but the fear of dyiing that is important. It is the thing that makes pcs not go sailing on the lava river. The thing that makes checking for traps important. The reason clerics are always in the party.

Why don't I plunge off of the tower and crash through the window, worsst i can do is miss the window, and even then I'll just burrow my way past the bad guys and save the day.
It sounds like hte campaign just moves from plot point to plot point... much like a television series. Then with the planned deaths... it really does sound like a play or television episode.

It just doesnt sound right to use death as an option in the game. Death is the ultimate pc failiure. It doesnt prevent other pc failures.

 

[ARandomGod]

I kill PC's when they reach -(Con score + Level).

Other than that I adjust encounters up or down in an attempt to challenge them, but not kill them. I don't like 'em to die, there are only a few deaths that a good storyline (of mine anyway) can handle before the story just unravels.

I give them a large (con score) and progressively larger (plus level) negative buffer before death because it allows me to be more dramatic. I can not pull punches and still challenge a 15th level character without fear that he'll simply die outright from one hit. At higher levels a 10 HP negative buffer is negligible. When I have monsters that might schmack you for 30 or more a hit, and that might crit... and they get three hits a round... well, they NEED that larger buffer. And that's something a party might encounter in later levels of the game.

I want to be able to put them up against that without fearing overmuch that I'll outright kill one or more characters before they know to flee...

I've never had a worse gameday than the time I was a PC Arcane Trickster, with improved initiative, walking along at full health, fully buffed up, and then I was dead. Sure, the rest of the party avenged my death, the treasure was enough to res my character. But that was a horrible encounter. I had instant cast spells available to escape a bad situation (DDoor, teleport), I had a contingency spell that would have saved me if I hadn't died before being able to react in any way...

And that I just don't like. THe battle was awesome for the rest of the party. And it would have been awesome for me too, if my HP's were just short of "dead".