When Do You (GM) Kill PCs?

[DonTadow]

The consequences are -1 level. As far as I'm concerned, that's a huge penalty. Also, saying it's a cheat is a misnomer. Semantics aside, it isn't any more a cheat than restoration, cure light wounds, or wish are.

; I swear Third, some things just keep getting rehashed. We debated this a few months ago. Death is not getting cut or being blinded. It's crossing over. Your body stopping to produce. I am not condoning additional negatives for death, but I do support dms who take death as a serious event.

 

[JoeGKushner]

The thing that makes checking for traps important. The reason clerics are always in the party.

To a point, I disagree. It's a faulty part of the d20/D&D engine that keeps things like this in play.

Imagine a Player's Handbook where under healing, it noted, "If no one is using a cleric in the game, to minimize casualities, consider using this optional and modular rules including Reserve Hit Points, etc...."

Imagine a Player's Handbook that said under search, "Normally only a rogue can use this to spot traps with X difficulty rating. If no rogues are in the party, give the each party member the "Rogish Instinct Feat that allows them to search for the traps. Since every party member has it, balance is maintained."

I love D&D, but it's got it's rough spots.

 

[DonTadow]

Plan, not rehearse. Like, "We plan there will be a Dragon this week". Its a different kind of thing. Sometimes, the player's dice never do get rolled during a session if the descriptive flow of combat is good enough. I always roll for the monsters, though.




To clarify: No BG writing for killer DMs. Backgrounds are good for characters who will reliably continue at length.

Ahh that makes more sense. But I'm not a fan of diceless games. I've played in them and they are fun right up until you realize that you really can't fail.

I don't support killer DMs. But I do support challenging encounters. I'm game for throwing a cr 15 creature at a level 10 party if the dm leaves creative outs for the pcs to defeat it.

 

[ThirdWizard]

; I swear Third, some things just keep getting rehashed. We debated this a few months ago. Death is not getting cut or being blinded. It's crossing over. Your body stopping to produce. I am not condoning additional negatives for death, but I do support dms who take death as a serious event.

There's a difference between "bad" and "cheating." Cheating implies breaking the rules. Cheating is rolling a 1 and claiming you rolled a 20. Cheating is changing your 16 Str to an 18 Str when noone is looking. Casting raise dead as written in the PHB is most definately, irrevocably, not cheating. Saying otherwise is calling people who use raise dead as written in the actual rules cheaters.

 

[Blue_Kryptonite]

Ahh that makes more sense. But I'm not a fan of diceless games. I've played in them and they are fun right up until you realize that you really can't fail.

I disagree. Failure doesn't have to be mortal. You can lose everything but your life, and have to find a way to survive and regroup. After all, The Empire Strikes Back can be seen as a long series of non-fatal failures by the heroes.

 

[DonTadow]

To a point, I disagree. It's a faulty part of the d20/D&D engine that keeps things like this in play.

Imagine a Player's Handbook where under healing, it noted, "If no one is using a cleric in the game, to minimize casualities, consider using this optional and modular rules including Reserve Hit Points, etc...."

Imagine a Player's Handbook that said under search, "Normally only a rogue can use this to spot traps with X difficulty rating. If no rogues are in the party, give the each party member the "Rogish Instinct Feat that allows them to search for the traps. Since every party member has it, balance is maintained."

I love D&D, but it's got it's rough spots.

But there are non game changing mechanics to every situation . I"m entering a strict core rule Wizards and Warriors game without a rogue or cleric . The DM was very specific that there is no "needed" class ever. and shes right. Potions take care of the heals, and wizards can figure the traps the rogue doesnt intelligently trigger. True, you have an easier time with certain professions but the d20 mechanics don't allow any one class to be the end all to an adventure.

 

[DonTadow]

There's a difference between "bad" and "cheating." Cheating implies breaking the rules. Cheating is rolling a 1 and claiming you rolled a 20. Cheating is changing your 16 Str to an 18 Str when noone is looking. Casting raise dead as written in the PHB is most definately, irrevocably, not cheating. Saying otherwise is calling people who use raise dead as written in the actual rules cheaters.

I'm sorry, didn't realize how strong a word cheating was. And I'm not referring to cheating as in you're not following the rules. I'm refering to cheating as in cheating death. We build death as this big bad thing and when someone goes through it their only 20k and a level away from coming aback. Then the DM forgets about the character death and never revisits it. Those are the instances I'm refering to. I think if you want death to mean as much as it does even raising and reraising should have lingering consequences that have nothing to do with mechanics.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I'll fudge when it is just really bad luck, like the opponent rolls a critical and then maximum damage.

If the players do something stupid, I have no remorse.

My group is low level, resurrection is something they've only heard about. If I ever get a higher level group, my "bad luck" fudging will probably diminish.

 

[JoeGKushner]

But there are non game changing mechanics to every situation . I"m entering a strict core rule Wizards and Warriors game without a rogue or cleric . The DM was very specific that there is no "needed" class ever. and shes right. Potions take care of the heals, and wizards can figure the traps the rogue doesnt intelligently trigger. True, you have an easier time with certain professions but the d20 mechanics don't allow any one class to be the end all to an adventure.

You must not have felt that way when you posted "Originally Posted by DonTadow
The thing that makes checking for traps important. The reason clerics are always in the party."

?

 

[DonTadow]

I disagree. Failure doesn't have to be mortal. You can lose everything but your life, and have to find a way to survive and regroup. After all, The Empire Strikes Back can be seen as a long series of non-fatal failures by the heroes.

But failure's not up to you or the dice, its strictly up to whether the DM wants you to win or lose. You said it yourself, in your campaign you're more of a story teller than a game master. You have more control over the character because you've reduced the number of ways they control their fate.