When does multiclassing become excessive?

[SteelDraco]

I'm currently playing a character who will end up with levels in five different classes. At present, he's a Ranger1/Rogue3/Fighter1, who will be taking his next level in a priest class. After that, he'll be taking levels in a custom PrC for the campaign, the Jaguar Cultist of Tezcatlipoca. Character concept is rather strange. We started out as normal humans on Earth, but were... well, killed, as far as we can tell, and ended up in the Aztec underworld, trying to get to Mictlan and back to the real world.

In the real world, my character was a scumbag with connections to militia groups. I figured ranger/rogue fit him best, so I started as an apprentice-level ranger/rogue. When we gained the memories of an Aztec person to fit in in the underworld, I gained the memories of a werejaguar cultist of an evil god. Since Gene's mind is all screwed up, he ended up sort of taking those beliefs on as his own. The fighter level I took just to beef up my combat abilities; I was spending time on the front lines of combat, so it seemed appropriate, and I didn't see any reason to take another level in ranger. The priest level will represent me focusing more on Tezcatlipoca, as I'll start taking levels in the Jaguar Cultist class immediately afterwards.

As to the question... well, I tend to think that 3e encourages multiclassing. It's not like you have your classes written on your forehead, they're just the kind of skills you're focusing on, and some people learn about a wide variety of different things. I doubt I'll ever play a PC with more classes than Gene has, though. More than that, and the mechanics of the game start to bite you in the rear.

 

[arwink]

Realistically speaking, justifying multiple multiclassing isn't that hard, even when it's just being done for the stats.

Take Joe. Joe starts his first adventure as a wizard. He does some interesting spells, but he finds himself in trouble every time the kobolds sneak through the defensive line. His mighty skills with the quarterstaff just aren't cutting it. So Joe hitches his wagon to the party fighter, Ben, and gets a twelve week crash course in hand to hand combat. The next adventure, he gets nerfed by some goblins while he's trying to sneak (badly) past the entry way to their lair. A mage even nails him with a lightening bolt that Trev the rogue manages to dodge with ease. When the level up time comes, Joe starts copying Trev's training regime, learning the arts of stealth and evasion. He realises he could be casting new and better spells by this point, if he'd followed his magical studies, but he'd prefer to have these skills naturally than granted by spells. He still respects magic, but he no longer wants to rely on it in a tight situation. Then, in the next adventure...

In short, a mutliclassed character is easily justified as someone who'se reacting to an adventuring lifestyle and environment.

 

[Vaxalon]

The Gray Mouser (of Fafhyrd and... fame) is a very multiclassed character.

Levels in fighter, rogue, and wizard, at the very least... possibly a level or two in cleric too.

 

[Bagpuss]

So I wouldn't be missing out on much from the powergaming point of view.

The reason I am going to play him is because I see the classes more as packages of skills than as identities. He'll always be a barbarian lout

KORD GIVES ME STRENGTH RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRR

No you are right you have actaully gained much from a powergaming point of view, what with the heavily front loaded ranger just happening to be thrown in. Its handy how that fits your RP background, or is it more your background suits your classes.

 

[tleilaxu]

No you are right you have actaully gained much from a powergaming point of view, what with the heavily front loaded ranger just happening to be thrown in. Its handy how that fits your RP background, or is it more your background suits your classes.

I decided what I wanted to play, then made up the background. (of course!) I think he'll be fun to play (i'm tired of playing rogues and wizards, i want someone who can smash stuff).

I decided on ranger because initially i wanted him to have track and wilderness type skills. The other build was 1Barb 2Fight 3Fight 4Fight 5Fight 6Cleric but this seemed more boring. Anyway, he'll be using a great sword so the 2-weapon fighting is superfalous....

Also for favored enemy: animals. Hunting!

 

[widderslainte]

Oh no, "kits".

-Fletch!

I was trying avoid that word. Most of the kits were pointless, or poorly done, but the same could be said of prestige classes. I don't see how they are any worse than the multitude of multiclass characters with some contrived background just to get that single level of ranger. I think some standardization using feats and skills (gives 1 feat, 2 skills) could make them viable.

 

[Squire James]

The Gray Mouser (of Fafhyrd and... fame) is a very multiclassed character.

Levels in fighter, rogue, and wizard, at the very least... possibly a level or two in cleric too.

The Grey Mouser, IMO, is a Bard 1/Fighter X/Rogue X+2 (for a total character level of 2X+3, X depends on how late in the books you're looking). He never seemed to make it past cantrips, and none of his actions in the various books made me think he ever learned a first level spell.

While Fafhrd played something resembling a priest for a while, he never really did anything that suggested he had priest levels over the long term. I figure he's about equal to TGM, so his character level is also 2X+3. I'd call him a Fighter X/Barbarian X+3. You could also rule that Fafhrd had 2-3 Cleric levels, but never had a high enough Wisdom to cast any spells (both of the guys seemed to have a bad Wisdom problem). When times got tough, Issek of the Jug had to do all the miracles himself...

 

[WizarDru]

I was trying avoid that word. Most of the kits were pointless, or poorly done, but the same could be said of prestige classes. I don't see how they are any worse than the multitude of multiclass characters with some contrived background just to get that single level of ranger. I think some standardization using feats and skills (gives 1 feat, 2 skills) could make them viable.

The difference between kits and prestige classes is that kits emphasize scrapping a character and starting over, while prestige classes are something to work towards. The requirements to enter most properly designed prestige classes allow you to get there sub-optimally.

Whenever someone tries to find an excuse for a level of ranger, they're playing a game that I personally wouldn't enjoy. YMMV.

 

[ichabod]

In answer to the original question:

http://www.xenomind.com/ana/jack40.pdf

 

[Nightfall]

I think you should have just gone fighter/cleric. That makes a lot of sense if you're following a martial deity.