keterys
First Post
How? Seriously... how?
When is a power used? (Crescendo Sword)
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How? Seriously... how?
Fedifensor
Explorer
Here's an analogy - once you fire the gun, even if the bullet hasn't reached the target, the gun has been used.
Plus, if you're comparing to MtG, it's just like tapping a card. There is no "mid-tap" state...it either is untapped or tapped.
Fedifensor
Explorer
If you aren't looking at the recovery portion of the power, a [2W] CB1 is pretty weak compared to the other fighter paths in the PHB. Kensei get Weaponsoul Dance, which is a [3W]+[2W]+[1W] attack that lets you shift up to 10 squares in the process, and both knocks the target(s) prone and immobilizes them with a successful hit. Pit Fighters get an attack that potentially dishes out [6W] damage, and has a 5-square burst fear effect if you drop the primary target. The Iron Vanguard gets a [4W] attack that pushes, dazes, knocks prone, and allows the character to spend a healing surge.
Now, adding the recovery ability makes a huge difference. It's definitely one of the stronger level 20 PP abilities when you can potentially recover the power. It's on par with Hammer of Fate, which isn't expended on a miss AND gives you your action back to do something else.
I admit, I'm playing Devil's Advocate on this. But the people arguing that Crescendo Blade can't recover itself are saying that it's Rules As Intended...when there is no real way to discern that. Rules As Written seem to indicate otherwise.
keterys
First Post
I don't see what either of those has to do with how someone could possibly use a standard action power in the middle of using a standard action power?
Very simply, the text for Reliable strongly indicates the power is not expended until after its action is complete. _No text_ supports it being expended before you get through its resolution.
Ergo, it is up in the air and subject to debate, but the only evidence supports it not being spent and thusly not able to be regained by itself, at this time.
At any time, they might clarify one way or another to settle things though
Goumindong
First Post
You're misunderstanding. If you can recall it itself, its not a 2[W] CB1 daily, its a 2[W] CB1 At will.
eamon
Explorer
I doubt it was intentional, but I'd read crescendo sword as permitting itself to be regained.
It's hardly problematic; close bursts aren't all that great, it doesn't have a comparable miss effect, and it's no more an infinite loop than using an at-will power (and, of course, you can miss).
By 21st level, you're epic, and your at-wills deal 2[W] anyhow. Dual strike would permit focused fire and will deal comparable to more damage (as some damage-boosting effects work only on melee attacks - more than compensating the missing str bonus) and permits focused fire.
In short, a paragon-path-specific at-will-until-you-miss power isn't going to break the game, and by the simplest definition of used the power is used the moment you announce you're using it (to avoid re-use loops for interrupts and whatnot).
In short, why not allow it?
It's hardly problematic; close bursts aren't all that great, it doesn't have a comparable miss effect, and it's no more an infinite loop than using an at-will power (and, of course, you can miss).
By 21st level, you're epic, and your at-wills deal 2[W] anyhow. Dual strike would permit focused fire and will deal comparable to more damage (as some damage-boosting effects work only on melee attacks - more than compensating the missing str bonus) and permits focused fire.
In short, a paragon-path-specific at-will-until-you-miss power isn't going to break the game, and by the simplest definition of used the power is used the moment you announce you're using it (to avoid re-use loops for interrupts and whatnot).
In short, why not allow it?
keterys
First Post
The main reason not to allow it, as far as I can tell, is because it appears to be against the rules. Which matters more or less to other people - I'm not really sure I'd go against them in this instance because it feels like doing so would make the game more boring (encourage using the same power over and over) with little other gain. If it made the player happy enough to counterbalance, it could be though.
Otherwise, yeah, it seems like the power is more useful for regaining things like Reaper's Stance than having a pumped up at-will.
Otherwise, yeah, it seems like the power is more useful for regaining things like Reaper's Stance than having a pumped up at-will.
James McMurray
First Post
I'm not adding anything. I'm just assuming that the English speaking authors who wrote their books in English for English speaking readers to read in English would assume a basic level of understanding of the English language and its verb tenses: past, present, and future. You are of course free to equate those tenses, but I'd be concerned about the things you introduce into the game when past and present are the same thing.
Fine, then by language, if something is being used, it has been used. A piece of gum that is being used is not unused, it is clearly used and not going to be used by someone else.
keterys
First Post
And a piece of gum that has had the wrapper on it opened... is that used? Because that's the same argument you're making.
Is there any rules text, whatsoever, any at all, even something as anecdotal as the Reliable text, to support the position that a power is expended before the action that you're spending to use it has resolved?
Is there any rules text, whatsoever, any at all, even something as anecdotal as the Reliable text, to support the position that a power is expended before the action that you're spending to use it has resolved?
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