When PCs Die When the Player's Not There

[ptolemy18]

Also, you were given an excellent suggestion up above. Have the character wake up, undamaged, and turn the "why" of it into a plot point. Have him search out and discover why this happened. Perhaps the trogs did a ritual on his corpse, and implanted the mind of one of their own, buried deep, as a sleeper agent against hte surface world (and have him start doing nasty things while he thinks he is asleep - the trog having taken over his body while his mind sleeps).

Perhaps he awakes with a strange amulet that he cannot remove. And once they get back to town, he starts getting followed by members of a strange cult who want to use him in a ritual to bring forth their "dead" god. They had performed a ritual previously whose culmination co-incided with the moment of his death, so he was randomly picked.

You're right that I could've asked the guy who was playing the PC "Maybe you should retreat further...." That could've helped save him. (It's not that he only had TIME to take a 5-foot step away, that's what he CHOSE to do. Obviously not used to playing archers...) So I was remiss in not suggesting better tactics.

As for fading the PC into the background, the night's session literally picked up in the middle of a fight. If the PC had just vanished, the other PCs would have been at a tactical disadvantage. He had to be there to fight.

I'm also surprised at how many people have campaigns where they feel it's appropriate for 4th-level PCs to be spontaneously raised from the dead for no apparent reason. :/ In my campaign world, being raised & resurrected is rare.

I must say that, as a player, I would be pissed off too if my PC died when I wasn't there. But I would understand it. For the credibility of the game, the players need to feel that their PCs can *ALWAYS* die due to bad luck and bad die rolls. No one is safe -- not PCs, not NPCs. I don't mind playing under this system, either -- it gives me a better feeling of accomplishment when I live.

Campaigns where you know you're not going to die, or the DM is going to obviously pull your fate out of the fire, are boring campaigns. When I'm a player in a game, I *like* to know that it's possible for me to die if I'm unlucky or make a bad move. (I'm sure there's people who would disagree with this statement and prefer to roleplay in the "inevitable path towards greater and greater success and glory" style.)

I was GONNA have the troglodytes take people prisoner instead of killing them, if they won! But even the TROGLODYTE didn't know that he was going to kill the archer with one blow!

For the internal cohesion of the game world, some random factors have to be out of even the DM's control. Some things have to be just random. That's why I rolled out in the open -- so even I couldn't be accused of playing favorites.

Anyway, now I feel like I'm just justifying myself... I *do* feel, in retrospect, that I could've done more to keep the PC alive. But some of the things people are posting are making me think that they operate campaign worlds where random death never happens -- when in fact it is the very meat & bones of D&D...

Jason

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Our actual response to a player not being there is:

* The DM & 'guardian player' do the roleplaying according to existing character behaviour.
* The 'guardian player' runs the pc in combat with the dm eyeballing for any greater than expected risk being taken & wielding an auto-veto.
* Absent player has the right to be angry if needless misfortune befalls their pc but having to handle the somewhat diminished risk of unfortunate event.

On the sole occasion that I wasn't there I threatened to "kill a random pc" in my campaign if my pc died but of course I was joking...

 

[DonTadow]

You're right that I could've asked the guy who was playing the PC "Maybe you should retreat further...." That could've helped save him. (It's not that he only had TIME to take a 5-foot step away, that's what he CHOSE to do. Obviously not used to playing archers...) So I was remiss in not suggesting better tactics.

Or you could have had the being automatically go after a player PC. The assumption being that the NPC figured that an idiot running into close combat with a bow is not smart enough to be effective. in combat

As for fading the PC into the background, the night's session literally picked up in the middle of a fight. If the PC had just vanished, the other PCs would have been at a tactical disadvantage. He had to be there to fight.

I really try not to end a session in combat. That's pretty much a taboo that, at least in my gaming circles, is avoided. If you have to leave a game in the middle of combat, I'd write something in where it makes sense to break at that particular point in the combat. Perhaps introducing an event towards the end of the session such as several NPCs entering into the room, or the lights suddenly going out, or a magical item crashing to the floor producing a 1 round magical effect. I know it sounds wierd, but WWE actually has this procedure down pact. When they do longer matches, they have to do commercial breaks between the matches. This could be very disruptive if not done right. So they break the match up and end every before commercial break with some type of match cliffhanger (good guys losing badly, all parties suddenly knocked unconcious, the introduction of another player in the mix).

I'm also surprised at how many people have campaigns where they feel it's appropriate for 4th-level PCs to be spontaneously raised from the dead for no apparent reason. :/ In my campaign world, being raised & resurrected is rare.

In my campaign ressurections are rare too. I can't speak for the others, but i suggested that because my main goal is to make sure i"m fair to the players. I have to use what I can in my DM power to rectify a situation I let get out of control. Ressurecting under other circumstances is taboo, but the circumstances of having his player lose his character due to no actions of his own is sufficient enough evidience to warrent a mysterious ressurection. And again, this can fit well into your campaign world. You don't have to explain how the ressurection happened now, only that it did. You can have others detect spellcraft and tell them that the means ... are not divine. In other words leave an easter egg. You can come back and explain it later on in the story. It might even inspire you to write an adventure or to. As Joss Whedon once said, Death is a plot device.

I must say that, as a player, I would be pissed off too if my PC died when I wasn't there. But I would understand it. For the credibility of the game, the players need to feel that their PCs can *ALWAYS* die due to bad luck and bad die rolls. No one is safe -- not PCs, not NPCs. I don't mind playing under this system, either -- it gives me a better feeling of accomplishment when I live.

Campaigns where you know you're not going to die, or the DM is going to obviously pull your fate out of the fire, are boring campaigns. When I'm a player in a game, I *like* to know that it's possible for me to die if I'm unlucky or make a bad move. (I'm sure there's people who would disagree with this statement and prefer to roleplay in the "inevitable path towards greater and greater success and glory" style.)

I agree, you have to strive to produce a feeling of looming death to a game, but death should occur because of bad tactics and dice rolls, not babysitting my 3 year old and not making it to the game. A character should always be in control of his own destiny. Even in your descriptions you keep saying the words I I I, not Bob ,Fred and Jane. Having another player play his character is no different than the DM playing someones character. The player returning has no sense of accomplishment as he was not involved in his own death whatsover. IF I die I want it to be on my terms.

Also to clarify you have to be balanced how you bring on that looming feeling. If you do it too much you create paranoid players whom second guess their every move and impede the flow of the game and then all of a sudden you got a super tactical sim. You should have a good mix of challenging encounters, easy encounters and overwhelming encounters to keep your players consistently on their toes.

I was GONNA have the troglodytes take people prisoner instead of killing them, if they won! But even the TROGLODYTE didn't know that he was going to kill the archer with one blow!

For the internal cohesion of the game world, some random factors have to be out of even the DM's control. Some things have to be just random. That's why I rolled out in the open -- so even I couldn't be accused of playing favorites.

Eh, You got players who question your ethics? I've always rolled in secret and all my DMs have as well and I've never questioned their rolls. I think that players have to trust their DM to make good decisions. Rolling out in the open as a DM takes some of your DM powers away. Remember you're the DM not one of the players. A Basketball REferee doesnt have to explain every call and you don't have to produce all of your rolls.

Why wasn't he troglydyte not dealing non-lethal damage if they were thinking of taking the pc's prisoner. Shouldn't he have switched to non-lethal damage after seeing how much blood (his low hit points) was pouring from the archer.

Anyway, now I feel like I'm just justifying myself... I *do* feel, in retrospect, that I could've done more to keep the PC alive. But some of the things people are posting are making me think that they operate campaign worlds where random death never happens -- when in fact it is the very meat & bones of D&D...

Jason

You could have done more but there's nothing you can do about the past. But you're still DM and you can logically clean this up and fix the situation without ruining your game. If that player liked that character it would be fair. LIke I said in my last post, when it happened to me, I said I understod but i was really upset as i cared about the character but sucked it up for the game.

 

[gizmo33]

Anyway, now I feel like I'm just justifying myself... I *do* feel, in retrospect, that I could've done more to keep the PC alive. But some of the things people are posting are making me think that they operate campaign worlds where random death never happens -- when in fact it is the very meat & bones of D&D...

There ARE people who run campaigns where random death never happens - I'm not sure if it applies to anyone on this thread, but they're out there. Some people only kill PCs when the PCs do something "stupid", and others don't kill PCs at all. That's DMing style, and often in a thread where you're asking for DMing advice you have to take this into account.

If you've been DMing for a while with your style, then any one of the following happens repeatedly:
1. players don't show up
2. PCs die

Every once in a while, then, both will happen.

You started this thread with "oh my gosh, what do I tell my player?". What you should have told him was "Remember how you agreed to abide by the consequences of someone else playing your character? Well, your character died." But you had no table rules for 1+2 so that, as I've said, is THE issue that I think you could work on. Make sure your players know your policy for 1+2.

The actual policy you use depends on your campaign: game vs. plot, conditions for getting XP, the nature/availability of raise dead, etc. Those depend on your particular vision and I don't think there is much sense in trying to justify it to others at this point. Especially when the root of the problem IS NOT your DMing style, but instead it is a break-down in communication, probably facilitated by little experience with #1 and/or #2 above.

 

[Argonel]

Oddly enough I had almost the same situation turn up recently in the game I run. Fortunately I have mature players that understand that sometimes bad things hppen to good people and he took it well. As it stood if the mob hadn't scored a critical hit the character would have been merely incapacitated instead of dead. I called the player up the following day and filled him in on his characters heroism (which was in character for the characters established personality) and it's unfortunate results. He took it well, and took advantage of the opportunity to create a new character.

 

[sniffles]

He's below-decks, incapacitated by sea-sickness.
He's below-decks, heroicly manning the pumps to keep the ship afloat.

Generally, though, we just ignore it. The story's important, sure, but not as important as having fun with my friends and not screwing them over because real life intruded.

There!! That's the attitude I like to see!

We used to have a group that had a frequently absent player. His character kept catching a fever.

It seems to me that unless the group has agreed beforehand that character death is no big deal, it's really rude to kill a PC whose player isn't present.

My group would probably retcon the situation to say that the PC didn't really die but was saved at the last minute by some emergency healing and is now unconscious.

 

[gizmo33]

We used to have a group that had a frequently absent player. His character kept catching a fever.

The players in my last campaign put together a random chart of "what you're character is doing while you're away". It wasn't pleasant. PC death might have been preferable to some of the possibilities.

 

[Nyeshet]

I would state that - as a future rule - the PCs of absent players fade into a mist. They live as long as TPK does not occur, and if they have a special - and needed - skill (or spell) the DM rolls the skill check (or assumes the prepared the spell and casts it) so long as it is not combat related.

For the present: assume you rolled even. The NPC is dead, the PC is alive (but I would assume he takes the damage the NPC took (he lived, right?), so he may have some recovery to do. This is a one time PC / NPC switch, necessary as a house rule for this situation did not priorly exist.

 

[Arc]

I generally prefer, both as a player and a DM, to have absent player's PCs be either off-camera, or there, but non-participatory. Generally, nobody is going to willingly miss a session, and adding on a PC-death to a string of what's already likely bad-news hardly helps make the game fun.

One of our players in an old campaign was constantly absent. Enough to the point where the likelyhood of her showing up to a session was about 50%. Still, she was a lot of fun when she did show up, and had a lot of fun playing. So, her cleric character stayed off-scene, and did the occasional post-battle healing (or mid-battle healing, if we really needed it). We had a running gag of how her character would appear from the ethereal, shout "Heeeeaaal!", and dissappear. A little suspension of disbelief, but a lot more fun for everyone involved.

In the last session I DM'd, one of the players was absent, so I had the boss enemy drop him down to 0hp in one hit (rolled it just in case, but I would have fudged it so he stayed concious, regardless). The character slinked off camera, clutching his wounds and giving him a good reason to stay back for the session, and gave the rest of the party good reason to take the bad guy seriously. Of course, when the player suddenly decided to show up halway through combat... well, that took some explaining, but it definitely helped the cinematic appeal of the combat (The wounded rogue comes back from the brink of death to aid his friends, just in their time of greatest need!), and it didn't detract from the enjoyment of any of the participants.

I suppose that it depends a lot on the feel of the campaign, and the game. If you're playing a grim 'n gritty style game where death looms around every corner, and characters die even in the best of circumstances, then an absent player's character death might add to the enjoyment of the game. Otherwise, if it's not fun, then don't do it.

 

[Rasyr]

I'm also surprised at how many people have campaigns where they feel it's appropriate for 4th-level PCs to be spontaneously raised from the dead for no apparent reason. :/ In my campaign world, being raised & resurrected is rare.

Please note that my suggestions were not "for no apparent reason". It might not be apparent to the PCs, which DOES give them a mystery to solve. When they say "How did that happen?", you just respond with "Now that is a mystery, isn't it? How are you going to go about figuring out what happened?" or something along those lines. This gives them another plot that they can follow, leading off from the mysterious event that happened to their companion!

Campaigns where you know you're not going to die, or the DM is going to obviously pull your fate out of the fire, are boring campaigns. When I'm a player in a game, I *like* to know that it's possible for me to die if I'm unlucky or make a bad move. (I'm sure there's people who would disagree with this statement and prefer to roleplay in the "inevitable path towards greater and greater success and glory" style.)

I play (and wrote) HARP, a game with instant death criticals, so you know that I also enjoy games where it is possible for characters to die. However, there IS a major difference between dying when you are there and have control of your character, and you cannot show up for a session and somebody else's lack of judgement gets YOUR character killed.

You say you were remiss in not suggesting better tactics. The guy playing the PC for his buddy was also remiss for not playing the character as if it were his own. But guess what? You are punishing the guy who could not make the session for the actions of you and that other player.

I must say that, as a player, I would be pissed off too if my PC died when I wasn't there. But I would understand it. For the credibility of the game, the players need to feel that their PCs can *ALWAYS* die due to bad luck and bad die rolls. No one is safe -- not PCs, not NPCs. I don't mind playing under this system, either -- it gives me a better feeling of accomplishment when I live.

I would just be royally ticked. And the character did NOT die due to bad luck or bad die rolls. He died because of bad decisions by the one controlling the character and the one GMing at the time. There is a world of difference there.

I was GONNA have the troglodytes take people prisoner instead of killing them, if they won! But even the TROGLODYTE didn't know that he was going to kill the archer with one blow!

You had already hurt him at least once or twice, with major damage. He was down to 10 hit points or so before that last attack and you had done at least 1 attack that did 12 points of damage. You could have just as easily said he was switching to subdual damage if you had really wanted to take them prisoner.

For the internal cohesion of the game world, some random factors have to be out of even the DM's control. Some things have to be just random. That's why I rolled out in the open -- so even I couldn't be accused of playing favorites.

No, they don't. Random does not equal internal cohesion. Consistant rules and rulings equal internal cohesion. Rolling out in the open like that (and stressing it so much) seems to make it sound more like you wanted to kill his character, but didn't want to take responsibility for it, and are hiding behind the dice rolls.