When Player Driven Adventures Don't Pan Out

[Neonchameleon]

I always find that the key things to get proactive players are empowered players and pressured characters. Empowered players helped write some of this stuff but only some and it makes it personal when I build on what they give me. Pressured characters have a reason to not just sit around; things are happening. Whether it's a scramble to avoid running out of money (the oD&D way) a forthcoming invasion, a plague, or something. If they sit around then things are going to get worse and they know it. So they have to get off their backsides - and they know something about what's coming.

 

[Reynard]

Did the players agree to this during session 0? Did they know what they were agreeing too?
What you describe would work great, with the right group of players.

Yes, and some of the players are those players, but not all. So i think there is a bit of friction in the party on that end. Plus, this is a weekly game we realistically get to play biweekly for 2.5 hours. I think some players just aren't interested in the "homework" part --which is fair.

 

[Reynard]

I always find that the key things to get proactive players are empowered players and pressured characters. Empowered players helped write some of this stuff but only some and it makes it personal when I build on what they give me. Pressured characters have a reason to not just sit around; things are happening. Whether it's a scramble to avoid running out of money (the oD&D way) a forthcoming invasion, a plague, or something. If they sit around then things are going to get worse and they know it. So they have to get off their backsides - and they know something about what's coming.

Would you say that applying "pressure" is the GM driving things?

 

[Neonchameleon]

Would you say that applying "pressure" is the GM driving things?

To an extent. But applying pressure isn't the GM forcing the choice in what they do about it.

 

[payn]

In this case, there is no path, just an agreed upon end goal (we had a strong session 0 establishing this).

One strong point im trying to make is session 0 is no magic bullet. People will look you straight in the eye and say "im fully on board." Then, they realize they didnt know what they signed up for. There is also the person that tags along even though they dont like the idea they just want to game with their mates. Whatever the reasons, its not as simple as drawing a line in the sand. Folks will waffle, GMs will fail to deliver, its a sea of possibilities. No plan survives intact, be ready to pivot.

 

[TwoSix]

Even in a player-driven game, it's still the GM's role to determine complications and to frame opposition to the player's goals. The idea is that the opposition and challenges will be directly relevant to the PCs' drives and desires.

It's also a convention within fantasy that it's generally the villains who act proactively (by pursuing a plot to garner power, riches, amibition, etc.) and the heroes act reactively to thwart their schemes. Having a villainous character make a play that forces them to respond just lets the PCs react in a heroic manner. And yes, sometimes being able to react, without the need to author, can feel liberating.

One of the goals of players driving is to set up the primary conflicts. "I'm looking to strengthen my swordsmanship, so I can find and kill the man who killed my father" is what lets you as GM present Count Rugen, the six-fingered man as the king's henchman rather than a generic 10th level fighter.

 

[Reynard]

No plan survives intact, be ready to pivot.

Sure. And that is where I landed. I made an event occur that galvanized the PCs to action. It worked. All is well.

But I still wanted to whine about it.

 

[payn]

Sure. And that is where I landed. I made an event occur that galvanized the PCs to action. It worked. All is well.

But I still wanted to whine about it.

I hear that.

Last time I tried to do a Battletech campaign, half the players didnt do any of the homework, read any of the rules, etc.. Eventually they told me they just wanted to fight each other. I told them thats what they do every week in open gaming. They looked me right in the eye and said, "yeah but we dont do it as a campaign". lol, good times.

 

[Micah Sweet]

To me the conflict is "I dunno. What is there to do? Especially if the eventual end point is to deal with this BBEG?"

From the sounds of it, the campaign has an end point set up... so there IS a linearity to the campaign. The PCs will do a bunch of things in service to getting to that end point. Which means the players can't actually do "anything" because whatever they do has to put them on the rails that end at dealing with the BBEG. So for me... as a player I would want things put in front of me to choose from that actually would serve the campaign and get me heading towards the end.

Giving me the absolute freedom to decide "You know what? I'm going to move to the other side of the world and open a bakery" doesn't serve the campaign. That's not where the campaign is meant to eventually go. Thus I don't want or care to have that absolute freedom given to me if I don't really have it.

I have no idea if your players feel similar or not... but it's possible that they do. Which might explain their reticence to make their own choices on what to do, rather than look for available options that lead towards the inevitable end.

Just because there's a high stakes situation simmering away in the background doesn't mean the PCs have to specifically engage with it all the time, especially if they're just not strong enough to tackle it. They can and IMO should pursue their own personal goals and play the long game.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Even in a player-driven game, it's still the GM's role to determine complications and to frame opposition to the player's goals. The idea is that the opposition and challenges will be directly relevant to the PCs' drives and desires.

Why are you assuming this? Why can't the players just be exploring the setting through their PCs, with no assumption that everything they encounter is related to them and their personal story in some way?