When players clash

[Sir ThornCrest]

Darmanicus,

Your responses didnt seem rude so much as direct. I think other parties on this thread sound a little "thin skinned" is a good way of saying it...Some sound as if they are a little to touchy feely....I for one liked your responses...the dude doesnt want to be there and it sounds like the rest of the table does'nt want him there.

Thorncrest

Self control has always been a problem that's what the colostomy bag's for

Seriously though......obscenities!!!? I apologise if anything I've said has offended you but I tend to get a bit passionate at times and I can't sometimes get to grips with how sensitive some people can be.

 

[BlackSilver]

My apologies gentlemen, I was simply curious about the stated of mind of some of the people on ENWorld, no offense was intended or implied on my part and none was received.

Darmanicus-
I become impatient, quite often.

As some can contest I have had my share of Player/Friend problems at and away from the table, I chose to bring those problems to this forum to gain insight and other’s thoughts. The problem was solved because of this forum. I thank you for the thought that I might well be super human, but I am not- darn it.

As far as the other person’s concerns for their fellow players and friends, if he is going through some serious problems he might not be aware that he is creating a problem at the table or with his friends. Talking to him will hopefully discover what is going on and allow him to become aware of the problem he is creating. If his friends tell him to “get lost,” while his mother is dying of cancer (as an example) then where will that leave him when she is gone and needing his true friends? If you discover that your friend is going through a long passing then would you not consider giving him more slack in his attitude? Would he take offense if you asked him to step away from the table until he was done with his real world problems?

Discovering the problem and understanding it one could find that they can relate to the problem, by just stepping away you are abandoning your friend and showing a not so compassionate side of yourself.

I am still curious about this lack of discovery I have seen here but that is not why this thread was created, please let us continue.

 

[Whimsical]

Using your description of friendship, I would have to conclude that I never had a friend in my life, as I would disinvite even my own mother if she was an unrepentant disruptive player from a game that I'm running. First of all, gaming is an elective social activity. It is nothing that anyone has to do. In addition, it's a privelege to be part of a gaming group. One that every participant must earn every game session by being respectful of each other and adding to the game experience. When I start a roleplaying game, my objective is to provide an entertaining and fulfilling experience for the players. Part of this includes dealing with players who are decreasing the enjoyment of the game. That's my responsibility as the host of the game. "Dealing," of course includes being a friend and determining what is wrong in their life and trying to help out, or determining what is it about the game that they are not enjoying and finding ways for the player to gain more satisfaction from their play experience. If my efforts are not working and I get to the point where I would disinvite the player, I would instead use the Abuse It -- Lose It method as a last ditch resort if the player is willing to cooperate. And if do disinvite the player, it doesn't mean that he is no longer my friend. We can still be friends. We're just not going to game with each other. That's all. One of several million activities that we could do with each other instead.

The fact that there are people that have the "it's wrong to drop a friend from a game" mindset has promted me to inform every one of my GMs that they have my explicit permission to disinvite me from their game for any reason, and I promise that I won't feel betrayed. The last thing in the world that I want is to have a gaming group suffer my presence. I know that my play preference does not match some DMs game preference.

In fact, I'm going to talk to my DM today about how my frustration over his campaign has led me to be rather rude last session, and see about finding a way to have me leave the game while not disrupting the game with the sudden abscence of my character.

 

[BlackSilver]

Using your description of friendship, I would have to conclude that I never had a friend in my life, as I would disinvite even my own mother if she was an unrepentant disruptive player from a game that I'm running.

The version of friendship that I am trying to explain is nothing like you might think, it is something built on a mutual respect, consideration, and compassion. If you have not had such a relationship, even with your own mother then I am sorry.

Please do not confuse what I am trying to say with what I wish to convey- I would simply like to understand why no one is interested in discovering why Aerodm’s player has changed and just wish to “give him the boot.”

A lot of people use gaming as an escape, to leave their lives behind and arrive somewhere, in some place where they can defeat the undefeatable and where they can change the world. This allows them to step away from their real world pain, but the pain is not always left behind, and when it is not left behind then gaming can be affected. It is not intentional at this point, it is just a matter of fact in human psychology. :\

It is only a suggestion that I give now- when a Player or GM seems a little off in the game, when they seem distracted and not themselves, find out why, offer a shoulder, or a few kind words. Pushing them away from what they may need (a good time about the gaming table) might be to much for them and you could lose them as a friend when it was simply a lack of communication.

 

[Goblyns Hoard]

BlackSilver

Even though I was the first (I think) in this thread to come out with the cut-and-run viewpoint I want to point out that I was doing it to present AeroDM with a valid option. From the original post I got the feeling that this other guy is not his friend. I know he states that he considers him a friend, but the way it reads he certainly isn’t acting as one. Maybe he’s going through some grief of some sort – but if that’s the case then if he really is a friend to AeroDM then he should be showing that – by talking to him. However the way I read it is that this guy has been doing this for a while:

“One of our players has always been something of a problem gamer, but for the last year or so it has intensified a great deal”

You’re right of course – we should value friendship highly. Of my current group 2 of the guys I’ve been gaming with for 10 years. Both of them travel 2.5 to 3 hours to get to my house (which is conveniently in the middle of the three) for a game when we get together. I value their friendship and always look forward to our games… I also know that they’re not going to fail to show up without telling me, won’t give me grief in game and aren’t going to walk out just because they don’t like what I did to their character. If someone shows such clear disrespect to the effort I put into a game then they clearly aren’t acting like a friend. It’s not down to AeroDM to apologise for his behaviour – it’s down to his so-called friend to start acting like one.

The Hoard

 

[Whimsical]

The version of friendship that I am trying to explain is nothing like you might think, it is something built on a mutual respect, consideration, and compassion. If you have not had such a relationship, even with your own mother then I am sorry.

I'm surprised that you have said this. Please reread my post. Can you really say that I'm not working to build relationships built on mutual respect, consideration, and compassion? What is it that I'm not doing?

 

[Darmanicus]

BlackSilver,

I can understand where you're coming from mostly however don't you think AeroDM and the group have already inquired as to what's up? Without his input we can't know for definite obviously but I think that since he hasn't provided a reason for his behaviour then they have tried and failed to get one therefore this guy comes across as an @rse in my opinion.

 

[BlackSilver]

I'm surprised that you have said this. Please reread my post. Can you really say that I'm not working to build relationships built on mutual respect, consideration, and compassion? What is it that I'm not doing?

My apologies, Whimsical, if there was a misunderstanding, as you may well realize message boards seem a poor forum for convey some forms of communication correctly. Again, please accept my apologies for the misunderstanding and know that it was not intentional.

You’re right of course – we should value friendship highly….. -It’s not down to AeroDM to apologise for his behaviour – it’s down to his so-called friend to start acting like one.

I can accept that you value your friends, that you have good friends, and that you have good communication with them but consider this- if one of your friends showed up one day and was ready to play, but you felt that he was a little darker then normal. You ask and he says that nothing is wrong, and makes jokes about it, but you still feel this darkness of emotion following him. Every week you feel that darkening emotion more and more, and you inquire about it, but he brushes you off every time. A year has passed and now its starting to effect the game and he is being more dark, more ‘something you can’t put your finger on,’ would you cut him because of that, because he was trying to keep the truth from hurting you too or would you tell him- "man, you have been getting more and more angry or something I and I keep asking you, but you keep brushing me off, its affecting the game, we need to talk."

In what you said about the friend starting to act like one, you are correct, however consider that he may not see the problem, may not realize that he is bring a problem to the table.

I mean no disrespect, and do not need an answer to this, I just want those out there with the “cut,” attitude to think- “ask,” before “cut,” it might improve everyone’s understanding of their friends problems.

Harmon wrote in one post something that I found of interest- it was something about apologizing even when you are not at fault, (sorry I am short on time and running late, but I wished to get this out on the boards). When a friend believes that they have been seen as causing some problem in a relationship, though they do not think they have, they should show that they are a friend by tucking their pride and say- “I am sorry.” If this apology is accepted then healing can begin. If no one yields then problems will be left unfinished, cause greater problems and perhaps end the relationship.

Harmon it sounds had some problems that I do not believe he thought he should apologize for yet he did, his friend/player did not accept the apology, and what sounds like the most harmful of all- the friend/player, did not extend an apology in kind.

A “dude, I am sorry,” goes oh, so far in repairing damaged relationships.

Thank you all for your thoughts and please, take no offense by anything I write here, it is not meant in an offensive fashion, I am seeking the answer to a question I have.

 

[ST]

BlackSilver, I hate to say this, but I think you're projecting some issues you may yourself be having onto this conversation.

The experience the original poster described talks about someone being consistently disruptive, not about a sudden change in mood from someone who's having problems in their life.

As such, I don't think your line of inquiry is relevant. I mean no offense by that -- I'm sure there's value in an abstract discussion of friendship -- but it doesn't match with the topic we're discussing, and this is, I think, why people are confused by your responses.

 

[Barak]

Geebus. It is just a freakin game.

See, the only activity I have with my friends is gaming. We mostly do RPGs, but once in a while, when I don't have stuff prepared (I'm the DM), we play card or board games. But the point is, we are all busy people. I have a wife and 3 kids, another player has a wife and two kids. The other two players don't, but they also have other stuff (one has two jobs and a gf). The point is, the activity we choose to do with out little free time is gaming.

One of the players (surprisingly, the one with little else going on) isn't the best player. He can be very whiny, he sort of cheats, and he (used to) take -forever- to decide what spell to cast, and to figure out the effects. We were all glad he decided to play a non-caster in the new campaign.

Should we kick him out? Hell no. He's our friend. It's the only time we see him. And we are sorta low on players, but that isn't even the main reason. I'd much rather never play RPGs again, and stick with board or card games forever then kick him out. And so would the other players. But maybe that's just us.