When the Unspeakable Happens

[LittleFuzzy]

That fight started off really poorly outside in the open, so the party retreated into the goblin lair. As far as they knew, it was now completely empty except for the hobgoblin deathmaster (and his zombies). They retreat around a corner into a room that looks fairly defendable, and while the dragon spends a couple rounds squeezing through the tight tunnels to get to them, they notice a secret door. Now, there's precisely one secret door in the entire lair, and there's one Big Bad Guy left. You do the math. But the party says they're going to open the door and hide inside!

::nods:: This is the most common cause for running into two encounters in my experience, aside from the DM just designing a two-encounter fight. The characters are the ones doing the running, for whatever reason, and they're running in a bad direction.

 

[Mistwell]

The cause of our first TPK was that Irontooth encounter where we accidentally combined two encounters in one.

It's going to happen. And if the players win, it's usually going to be pretty touch in go.

As for XP, I think it is cause for the DM to assign some ad-hoc bonus XP for the difficulty of the encounter being greater than anticipated.

 

[unan oranis]

I don't understand why the dm "killing" the pc's is a problem...

It can be tough gunning down all these lovely characters, but the dm's got to roll up his sleeves and impartially hand out horrible disasters to keep the game fun.

Though every once in a while having some unexpected allies jump into a fray is fun too.

 

[DayTripper]

Nothing changes.

The PCs should probably flee or they will die. Simple.

If you always cut back encounters so they become winnable, the PCs will learn to never expect overwhelming opposition.

In other words, they will come to expect to win every fight.

Thus, considering this scenario to be "unspeakable" rather than "a constant threat" is is dull and videogamey.

In the end, every DM must trigger a TPK sooner or later. That really is the only way to get the players attention. (Of course, with mature enough players, this never needs to be an issue)

Luckily, D&D is rather well equipped to handle a TPK. At low levels, generating new characters is quick and easy. At higher levels, when creating a character becomes more complex, you can simply have your old PC raised from the dead.

I agree with CapnZapp; players should not expect to win every fight otherwise there is no tension or suspense in the adventure. Games get very dull is there is no chance of losing, like playing computer games in "God" mode.

As both player and DM I have experienced the triggering of 2 (or more) encounters and I have to say that 4e characters are very hard to kill or even defeat. I have only every experienced 1 TPK and that was in Shadowfell Keep when Irontooth turned up unexpectedly before we'd a chance to rest and we were only 1st level.

In one game I'm currently playing there are only 3 PCs and even with an NPC we have triggered multiple encounters - mostly because written adventures bizarrely expect monsters to stay in their room despite raging melee going on next door, our DM with justifiable realism lets these other monsters get involved - without dying. This isn't without the DM trying either. As players we know when to run and when to fight.

 

[Regicide]

It's a problem with "dungeons." I had to wince when one module I was running opened with a monster that had 5x the movement speed of the party and an at-will communication power with a range far enough to reach the entire complex. Uuuuuuuungh. The encounter was more than challenging enough WITHOUT adding in another 6 encounters worth of allies which someone with a super genius IQ might be likely to do.

Even without monsters actually running for allies if DMs ever actually bothered making perception checks for the sound of battle and people charging around in plate armor slamming swords on shields and screaming battle cries... even low level monsters could hear it from a few rooms away, mid level monsters could have a chance from the other side of the dungeon!

As a DM, if you're running "high density" modules, you just have to keep your monsters in stasis, locked in their little room until the party comes to home to slaughter them for their pocket change and the experience of the butchery. If the party is actually foolish enough to themselves trip two encounters, then teach them a lesson, by all means!

 

[Plane Sailing]

He should play the scene plausibly. Have the monsters act in their best interests.

As a player, I like to be challenged. Two encounters instead of one: bring it on!

All of this talk about artificial solutions to a situation which by definition should happen on occasion are just that: artificial.

It's a game. Let the players enjoy it. Let the game be plausible instead of contrived. If my player sticks around and gets killed, even knowing the odds, that was my choice. If my fellow PCs stuck around to help, that was their choice.

Players often want their PCs to be heroes. Let them. Sometimes it works out and becomes a memorable encounter. Other times it becomes a TPK. But, one cannot have the former without the risk of the latter. The fun is in the striving, not in the auto-success.

QFT. I tend to run "status quo" adventures, and when it is appropriate (a monster flees from attack to get reinforcements is relatively common) two encounters sometimes get rolled into one.

The party can decide to take it on, they can decide to flee - it is their decision as to how they want to handle it.

 

[Mistwell]

For those of you who welcome multiple encounters happening (and I do not necessarily disagree), do you ever offer ad hoc additional XP for the increased difficulty of the combined encounters?

 

[Nymrohd]

A question. Additional encounters usually happen in dungeons. Dungeons almost always have doors or chokepoints. Can you not just barricade yourself in a room? My monsters flee if appropriate and so my players have learned that if a monster seems ready to run for it, we abandon whatever we may be doing and kill the bugger fast (he is probably a minion or bloodied otherwise anyway).

Also why on earth are two monster groups that are in adjacent rooms two encounters? Are the other monsters deaf? Combat is really loud. Monsters in adjacent rooms should pretty much always add, maybe with some delay in joining the melee.

And to make a related WoW comment, there is a reason you are supposed to bring a controller with you in the dungeon. And that is because he can delay adds and stop runners. Several wizard dailies can do that quite well and I am sure future controllers will have similar tricks.

As a last comment, if you have good reasons to place two encounters close together at least make sure they are not hard encounters. Two encounters of the players level are equal to an EL+3 encounter which is deadly but doable.

 

[Nymrohd]

And btw I'd rule that players can take a short rest while the monsters try to get through the door (and all the furniture piled in front of it). Mainly because it happens all the time in fiction and it is sufficiently dramatic. Maybe we could even create a standard skill challenge template for doing just so.

 

[Rechan]

A question. Additional encounters usually happen in dungeons. Dungeons almost always have doors or chokepoints. Can you not just barricade yourself in a room? My monsters flee if appropriate and so my players have learned that if a monster seems ready to run for it, we abandon whatever we may be doing and kill the bugger fast (he is probably a minion or bloodied otherwise anyway).

Also why on earth are two monster groups that are in adjacent rooms two encounters? Are the other monsters deaf? Combat is really loud. Monsters in adjacent rooms should pretty much always add, maybe with some delay in joining the melee.

Depends on the circumstances.

If there's an ochre jelly in the next room, it's likely not going to open the door and come investigate. Non-intelligent monsters aren't going to come rushing in. Same goes for ambush-style monsters - rushing into mid-battle isn't good if they want to jump someone from behind, especially if they have their home-field advantage just beyond the next door.

If the monsters are a rowdy type, sounds of combat might actually be rather common. You know, two ogres regularly fighting or beating one up because one took the last baby leg, or something.