When the Unspeakable Happens

[Nymrohd]

Well the sound of rowdy combat is not the same with the sound of disemboweled goblins The ochre jelly would not add even if a someone run for reinforcements (and on most cases it should try to eat the runner). Lurkers are the real issue since they might find the players being in combat as the perfect opportunity to attack. But again shouldn't those lurkers add in stealth a round or two after the players engage in combat for a great ambush anyway?

I am just saying that double encounters should be really rare and if you follow the rules they are very much likely to be lethal unless the characters are early in the adventuring day and/or leader heavy.

And if the encounter seems impossible when it goes double, you can always lay down arms and surrender . . .

 

[Rechan]

I am just saying that double encounters should be really rare and if you follow the rules they are very much likely to be lethal unless the characters are early in the adventuring day and/or leader heavy.

Except that as it shows in this thread, some people like double encounters, and they're not all that lethal.

And my original point is that, it doesn't matter how it happens: sometimes it just does; when it does, what should the DM do.

 

[Nymrohd]

Except that as it shows in this thread, some people like double encounters, and they're not all that lethal.

And my original point is that, it doesn't matter how it happens: sometimes it just does; when it does, what should the DM do.

Then why even have them as unplanned double encounters and not have them as higher EL encounters where some of the monsters are simply delayed?

In short, my point is, double encounters are just a term for an EL+3/+5 encounter with more than average monsters. If players enjoy them they should not be what happens when a DM has to rationalise a standard encounter during gameplay, but rather should be what a DM designed while planning the encounters.

A DM will often fudge the rules for the story (or at least I would). If you think it makes sense for the players to survive the encounter help them with it. I'd say you should not react to the double encounter immediately with a heavy handed nerf to the new wave but rather see how the players adapt and help them with the encounter as you would with any other encounter that played harder than you think it would.

As for giving extra xp I'd say no. You are giving them a bonus for something that probably happened because they made some bad tactical choice. Unless you would also give them additional xp for a well executed attack plan you shouldn't for a fumble.

 

[Nightson]

Except that as it shows in this thread, some people like double encounters, and they're not all that lethal.

And my original point is that, it doesn't matter how it happens: sometimes it just does; when it does, what should the DM do.

1. Depending on how challenging each encounter is, giving the players a few extra rounds with the first one can make it easier.

2. Let the PCs know that you won't make fun of them if they run away.

 

[Wik]

I've done this to my group a couple of times. They don't really like it, but it keeps them on their toes. And if they know that I won't pull my punches, it makes their victories mean more. I've had encounters where monsters retreat, and it quickly becomes "Oh, god, stop him! He's going to get help!". Recently, I had a kobold run off in the tail end of a fight. The PCs freaked out, and got very edgy for the next little while - and when the next kobold attack force came, they fought like hell.

Other times, monsters have just ran. Not to get reinforcements, but just to save their scrawny necks. Sometimes, I have those monsters reappear later (one has even become a slightly reoccuring "Villain").

But the train of encounters is a good thing to threaten PCs with. ON the downside, if you encourage this sort of play, you are encouraging PCs to focus fire, as they know that if one guy gets hurt and runs, they're in for a lot of trouble. I kind of like it when the PCs split up attacks a bit, as it feels more "Fantasy" to me. So, that's a reason (to me, at least) to avoid going overboard with the encounter train.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I had one such scenario in Thudnerspire Labrynth. Toughest fighter ever for the PCs. Still, they managed.

I didn't do anything unusual, I think I didn't even fudge any rolls.

I typically will assume that the monsters are not hell-bent on running after the PCs, though, just as they might not be hell-bent on fighting to death. So if it really turns bad, I just try to keep an opportunity for the PCs to flee the fight.

Generally in bad encounters, I will consider the option that the NPCs try to capture the PCs. Players hate that, so it's probably a fate-worse-than-death , though it's a common story-telling trope. I suppose a skill challenge would be used for their escape.

 

[Gort]

When I'm DMing, I let it happen. Generally speaking I won't bring it down on the PCs off my own bat - if it's supposed to be two encounters, I'll run them as two seperate encounters and not worry too much if a module is poorly designed.

As a player, if two encounters worth of monsters show up, I'll blow all my dailies fighting them, but be sure to maneuver towards a chokepoint or safe zone so I can retreat.

 

[Jhaelen]

For those of you who welcome multiple encounters happening (and I do not necessarily disagree), do you ever offer ad hoc additional XP for the increased difficulty of the combined encounters?

Nope. Adjusting XP by difficulty is a 3E thing.
4E uses static XP.

Besides, I think the best option to deal with XP in 4E is to simply ignore them and have the party level up when it makes sense for the story.

 

[ki11erDM]

1) How is XP handled?
2) How about Healing/Encounter Powers?

For #2, would a short rest to allow the PCs to recharge encounter powers, but not healing surges be kosher, or should they be stuck with their normal encounter powers, and then tough it out with AWs?

1) Handle EXP normally. As a side note I would not say the same if this was 3e which wanted you to take into account how hard the fight was.
2) No refresh of any kind.

I have been known to kill a few players (who’d guess that with my username…) but normally that has happened because the players have done something unexpected in the encounter, like open the door into a lich’s laboratory while running from his guards. It has always happened when I messed up a rule or two.

As for the QRF, players never take off their armor and never are without their swords and spells (discounting social settings), why in the world would the monsters have to put on their armor and get ready? The game assume that monsters and heroes are always ready, because they are always fighting one another. Unless your heroes are raiding an unsuspecting halfing village (which does sound fun…) I see absolutely no reason why a QRF that is within 200 yards should not be able to reach the players in a timely fashion.

BUT I am personally more inclined to have the QRF take that time to fortify their position more, and get more minions in to help with the fight. Maybe even arranging a few minion ambushes right before the party hits the next hard point. So after a short rest you would have a running battle with 2-3 waves of minions that funnel the party into the hard point of the dungeon.

Whatever you do remember that the goal of the monsters is a TPK, and if they are reasonably smart and have been in the complex for a few weeks, they will have fortified the location and most likely made plans on how to defend it unless they are completely without a leader.

 

[ki11erDM]

The cause of our first TPK was that Irontooth encounter where we accidentally combined two encounters in one.

One of the best encounters I have ever had as a player, was a blast... to win it : )