When to allow players to change out characters

[Elf Witch]

good question, it was not clear from my read of his context either.

In your case (Elf Witch), it was the GM who basically changed your character by virtue of changing game systems. Certainly an exceptional case, and it has symptoms of GM Mistakes going on in the 3x era of the campaign.

Personally, I'd advise caution for you. You've given warning signs the GM isn't that good. You're at a good spot to bow out gracefully.

I think he will be a fine DM for Hero. This is my first time playing with him as a DM but my son and several friends have played Hero and Mutant and Masterminds with him and they think he is a good DM. His mistake was thinking that we would not be open to learning a new system. When he stepped up to DM he asked us what we wanted. Looking back I think there was a communication error. We wanted a fantasy game not a superhero game I think he took that as wanting DnD.

 

[Greg K]

Are you talking about a player in your game or me?

Not you. I was talking in general how things work in my gaming circles. The wizard example came from another, if I recall, another board in which someone said they will swap out characters for a wizard after a specific level is reached.
In your case, the DM switched systems midway. If I was your DM, I would talk to you about playing the character and what changes we might be able to work out to better catch the feel of the character or, at the least, would you be willing to play the character for a few more sessions to tie up some loose ends (if necessary).

 

[jasper]

Since the Dm change systems mid stream. Everyone can have new characters. I allow it between sessions. But if you do this often enough, if I have plot line for the adventure, your pc will not have any major thing to do with it.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Another player is playing my brother and the heir to the throne so the whole issue with hunters from Egypt after the party is still very valid.

Well I can't see any reason why he needs your old character to stay then.

I suspect he's doing what I some times do and that is getting obsessed with minutiae. Point out to him that you're not enjoying the new version of your old character. If he's still insistent you've got the old options of character suicide and/or opting out of the game.

Best of luck with it all.

 

[Elf Witch]

Not you. I was talking in general how things work in my gaming circles. The wizard example came from another, if I recall, another board in which someone said they will swap out characters for a wizard after a specific level is reached.
In your case, the DM switched systems midway. If I was your DM, I would talk to you about playing the character and what changes we might be able to work out to better catch the feel of the character or, at the least, would you be willing to play the character for a few more sessions to tie up some loose ends (if necessary).

Since the Dm change systems mid stream. Everyone can have new characters. I allow it between sessions. But if you do this often enough, if I have plot line for the adventure, your pc will not have any major thing to do with it.

Well I can't see any reason why he needs your old character to stay then.

I suspect he's doing what I some times do and that is getting obsessed with minutiae. Point out to him that you're not enjoying the new version of your old character. If he's still insistent you've got the old options of character suicide and/or opting out of the game.

Best of luck with it all.

That would drive me nuts and I would say I don't think your play style is compatible with mine as a DM. It is obliviously a player who would change classes at different levels just because of mechanics is not invested in the actual story of the game. And while there is nothing wrong with playing the game this way it is not the way I want to play. Wildly different play styles like that lead to issues at the table that no one needs.

If I had a player who was unsatisfied easily with their characters I doubt I would be inspired to put an effort to give them a major plot line.

I agree I don't think he is being a jerk to be a jerk. I think he is caught up in his plot and I do understand that.

 

[billd91]

I may not allow a player to switch PC's right now but that's generally because we're right in the middle of something and working in a new PC would be disruptive. That said, I usually start looking for an opportunity to work a new PC in as soon as possible.

I don't understand why he converted the character without respecting the character's previous build choices - particularly with skills. That makes no sense to me. I can understand not liking the way some spells have gotten represented in a completely new system, but why screw around with the rest? I don't get it.

 

[Elf Witch]

I may not allow a player to switch PC's right now but that's generally because we're right in the middle of something and working in a new PC would be disruptive. That said, I usually start looking for an opportunity to work a new PC in as soon as possible.

I don't understand why he converted the character without respecting the character's previous build choices - particularly with skills. That makes no sense to me. I can understand not liking the way some spells have gotten represented in a completely new system, but why screw around with the rest? I don't get it.

It was not because he didn't want me to have them I didn't have enough points to buy them. Not after doing my magic and stats. He is didn't want a high powered game so that translate into less points to spend. I can respect that. The other players didn't have the same issue. The mage we built is very effective she is just not my character.

 

[Agamon]

There really is no solution I have spent the last week and half working with him and another friend who knows the Hero system to try and make my character basically the same and we have not been able to do it. Story wise this drives me crazy. Suddenly the familiar that has scouted and spied for us no longer exists. The spells I have used in major combats are gone. I used to be the one with knowledge of nobility and royalty, and knowledge London that is gone and another player now has it. He also wanted us all to have a profession mine was alchemist which is also gone.

The only thing that is the same is my ability to summon undead, drain and mage hand. Now these spells are much more powerful than the DnD versions. But all the flavor and things besides spells is gone.

At first I thought your GM was being unfair, but now with this explanation, I have no words. Looks to me like you already pretty much had a different character, so why not allow a change? This just doesn't make sense to me.

He's the one creating the problem by changing the system mid-game, the absolute very least he could do is allow you to create the PC you want in that system. As has been said a lot already, having fun is the key to these games. The poor GM's precious story is not. If you want to tell a story where the characters don't change unless you want them to, write a book.

 

[JediMasterGunner]

The mage we built is very effective she is just not my character.

Roll with this, as a way to make a new character.

Do the characters know that their abilities have changed?

Maybe your caster, with insight into the strange mysteries of the universes, remembers the way things used to be and can't live with it. This leads to erratic behavior as caution is thrown to the wind. Death, and a replacement character, are then inevitable. Unless he doesn't let PCs die, which is another problem.

 

[Li Shenron]

I don't think it ever actually happened in my games, but if a player wanted to change PC, I'd let her do so freely.

Well, characters are important to story. Some might say that there IS NO story without characters. So asking to retire your character could put a serious crimp in your DM's plans. If that's the case, the DM's best option is to run your character as an NPC, or let you make the changes you want to keep your character around.

See, I can't get on board with this. The DM who puts a fictional character ahead of a real human player has social issues that aren't going to get solved on an internet messageboard. The DM's plans mean nothing; they're just a tool to provide enjoyment for the players. I assume - hope - that such DMs don't exist.

I don't DM to provide enjoyment for the players, I DM to provide enjoyment for myself and my friends. I don't put myself before them but I don't put them before myself.

That said, I really believe that my plans are not so important that they cannot be changed. As a matter of fact, my "plans" are normally about the playstyle, the campaign themes and flavor, and sometimes a few key ideas that can be either narrative or functional. My "plans" are not about things proceeding in a predetermined way, in fact I love using the dice and random tables to make some decisions in my place. In the same way, I love seeing players really determine what happens in the story, so that also for me it feels like watching a movie I don't know the ending of.

Player's entitlement irritates me when I want to set a classic western-medieval atmosphere, and a player insists in playing a Monk, or if I have setup a campaign in a world where magic is rare and powerful, and players demand to have magic item crafting rules or wands shops. I believe it's important for a campaign to have a flavor that distinguishes it from other campaigns, and I believe it is the DM's duty to choose the flavor (unless gaming in "kitchen sink mode", which is a valid option), so once I have set the flavors & themes, players should accept them. If their current pet character idea doesn't match at all, they should simply shelf it for next campaign.

But changing character mid-game in general is not a big deal for me. Does it disrupt the story? Then it disrupts the story, and I will do my job of adapting the story. Nowadays we have an example of a fantasy series (Games of Thrones) where the story is constantly disrupted by important characters dying unexpectedly, and still a lot of people like it.