D&D General When We Were Wizards: Review of the Completed Podcast!

[Clint_L]

One thing I want to add, is that learning this stuff doesn't lessen Gygax or TSR in my eyes. At all. I mean, they're just human beings, and people getting some fame or power and things kinda going to sh*t shortly thereafter is a story as old as stories. I think there's a glorious majesty in the rise and fall of TSR. Like, all these flawed people still made something truly magnificent, something that has stood the test of time and will be around a lot longer than any of us.

Gygax and co. put something new, and creative, and wonderful into the world, a legacy that left humanity a little better than they found it. And yeah, it was messy, but that's humanity for ya.

 

[M.T. Black]

Thanks for the excellent review, @Snarf Zagyg!

I've enjoyed this series tremendously, and looked forward to every Sunday, when the new episode dropped. Like Snarf, I'm an RPG history junkie. What this series did was humanize many of the other characters in the Gygax story, in a way that perhaps no other presentation has.

For example, Brian Blume (sometimes presented as a villain in the TSR story) came out looking like a likeable, decent man who just got in over his head. I also enjoyed hearing from Lawrence Schick, who seemed on track to do great things at TSR, and then abruptly left.

It follows such a classic narrative arc too, perhaps in the "domestic tragedy" genre. Poor working man gets elevated to high position through talent/work/luck, he then squanders it all through hubris and greed, and finally ends up in a humble place, with some contrition.

One thing that came out strongly was how many people just wanted Gary's attention. Rob Kuntz, Mary Jo, the TSR designers, Rose Estes - everyone seemed to be reaching out for more than he was offering. Whatever people think of Gary, he must have had a real charisma.

Anyway, I highly recommend this podcast. Paul Stromberg (one of the producers) says they want to turn this into a movie (presumable a biopic). I hope it happens.

 

[M.T. Black]

Also, here's a link to the instagram attached to the podcast: When We Were Wizards Podcast (@whenwewerewizards) • Instagram photos and videos

 

[Parmandur]

One thing I want to add, is that learning this stuff doesn't lessen Gygax or TSR in my eyes. At all. I mean, they're just human beings, and people getting some fame or power and things kinda going to sh*t shortly thereafter is a story as old as stories. I think there's a glorious majesty in the rise and fall of TSR. Like, all these flawed people still made something truly magnificent, something that has stood the test of time and will be around a lot longer than any of us.

Gygax and co. put something new, and creative, and wonderful into the world, a legacy that left humanity a little better than they found it. And yeah, it was messy, but that's humanity for ya.

True, learning more about someone's tragic flaws, if anything, kind of makes the genuine accomplishments slightly more amazing, IMO, and provides a humanizing context.

 

[Parmandur]

Finally: yeah, Lorraine Williams. She's always been cast as this ogre/jezebel figure, but that's not what you get from these interviews, or from the written records cited in Game Wizards. She mostly comes off as competent and fair. TSR was in complete meltdown when she came onboard - totally dysfunctional and weeks from insolvency - and she kept it afloat. She basically got control of the company because a lot of people preferred working with her to working with Gygax, and the podcast makes it very clear why.

The thing I really gleaned from the setup of that board meeting and tge full dramatization...is how these people were trapped in this situation with TSR and Gygax, and they less wanted to get rid of Gary and more fix the situation because they had everything sunk into that business.

 

[damiller]

Im sure I'll have more to add, but one thing that has really made an impression on me is that Gary was destroyed by getting all he ever wanted, so to speak. He got the success he so dearly desired, and it was not good for anyone, for long.

I think I'll be happy with the ability to putz around with the few things I love, and let others worry about success.

 

[Theory of Games]

Were Tim Kask or Frank Mentzer interviewed for this and if so which episode(s)?

 

[TiQuinn]

Were Tim Kask or Frank Mentzer interviewed for this and if so which episode(s)?

I don’t recall Kask being interviewed but he is mentioned in earlier episodes. I’m a bit surprised about Mentzer because when it came to royalties, he wrote the lion’s share of Temple of Elemental Evil which is also briefly mentioned.

 

[Clint_L]

The thing I really gleaned from the setup of that board meeting and tge full dramatization...is how these people were trapped in this situation with TSR and Gygax, and they less wanted to get rid of Gary and more fix the situation because they had everything sunk into that business.

The podcast makes it clear that by 1984 the combination of Gygax's royalties and his Hollywood lifestyle really were really sinking the company, given their previous poor decisions and the failure of sales to keep up with hugely overoptimistic projections. So then you have Gygax arguing that his position and royalties are untouchable because without his game there would be no TSR [cough Arneson cough], and pretty much everyone else saying sure, but now that there is a TSR how do we keep it afloat?

And then when he finally hires a capable business manager she pretty quickly concludes, "Yeah, this guy's the problem."

 

[damiller]

the thing that i find interesting so far (im on ep7) is that while everyone they talk to who worked for TSR intellectually knows Gary was not being his best, they have nothing but contempt for the Blumes (and I assume later Williams). And yet, it seems that Gary planted all the seeds of destruction (yes others did contribute, i don't think gary is soley to blame, but he seems to still be held in kind of a mythic place).

That brings up two other points for me.

I now think Gary was more like Stan Lee: not so much an innovator, but the seller. It seems clear to me that he made D&D accessible. That is no small feat, but is a lot different than being the creator.

Artists. They want unlimited ability to create and hate any kind of limitations. And yet, it was precisely the limitations of the market that I think made D&D so popular. For example, I loved the part where they were told by marketing that they had to start drawing more mom approved art (or something like that). I think it was interesting that the creatives balked at this, and yet, I know in my personal case, my mother would have not allowed me to have D&D if it has featured the kind of artwork that the creatives wanted to include. In this case I am grateful that business side won out, because it meant I could have D&D books.