When will my group ever accept me?

[Darth K'Trava]

You're a bad man, Joshua Dyal. Perhaps as bad as me.

He's been around Reveal too much. Now *that's* a bad man! (I know he'll take that as a compliment....)

 

[Anax]

Maybe Anax is right. Maybe this is my karma for all the people I used to make fun of back in high school, before I found out my boyfriend was a gamer. So maybe I should put up with it.

Eek! Well, that's not quite how I meant it. People are brats in high school, there's no doubt. Once past that stage, though, you kind of expect folks to be more mature about things.

But regardless of all that, a D&D game is a place where that kind of thing *really* shouldn't matter. You're all there to have fun, doing something you enjoy doing. And you *know* you all have that in common. Sure, not everybody will get along, and not everybody has the same idea of what's fun about the game... but still.

Anyway, best of luck!

 

[Acquana]

Bitter and Jaded

I'm really sorry to hear things aren't as good as they could be ... I hate to admit I can probably empathize with the girls you're with, but that's because I'm horribly bitter and jaded. And speaking from the point of view of such, it's fairly obvious the worst in question had to deal with a lot of crap at some point or another in her life. If after this amount of time around you she's still doing giving you hassle, then you must remind her a lot of someone that hurt her. (Now remember, that's just a theory, but one from experience)

The one thing I note is that you consider this just a hobby. And a lot of people don't. This may be a serious social thing, a vent for an otherwise shy group of girls. It's not something some people do with surface friends. Not that it's a problem with you, just that it's a problem with doing something they think is done with people they trust more ... with someone they, well ... don't.

Thus "keeping it a secret" may be a bit of an insult. Even though you've made it clear it's nothing of the sort, that just may be how a few of them see it--that you don't appreciate their company enough to become better friends than just roleplaying once a week or something.

If you want my honest advice ... and I know it's kinda hard to do ... don't just talk to the rude girl on the level of handling a problem with some chick you know, handle her like a friend. Remind her you're nothing like the people who (probably) hurt her, try to find out what the real issue is, and show her that she needs to be as willing to accept different people as you are.

If you're not up for being honest friends with them, then maybe a new, more casual group is in order. Again, it's just my hypothesis. Good luck, and remember that no one has the right to punish you for something you didn't do to them.

 

[stevelabny]

Nerdabee? Heh.

If I was in your group, I would not only mock you by calling you a wannabe, I would outright refuse to play with you unless you changed.

A few other responses got to the heart of it, but didn't call you out on it.

If you are too ashamed to admit to "normies" (muggles? mundanes?) that you game... you are indirectly saying that you are ashamed of these girls as friends. That is beyond RUDE.

Sure you're talking a good game, trying to learn the rules and insisting you want to play with them, but since you are ashamed of the game and the girls, it rings completely hollow.

I've rallied against closet-gaming on EN World a few times, but this actually does a great deal to explain why. If you're embarassed to admit that you hang out with me, I DON'T WANT TO HANG OUT WITH YOU.

The "annoying" geek girl is guessing that if you lie to your boyfriend about who you are, you could very well be lying to her also. Why should she trust you?

You also said that these are the girls you "used to" not want to be caught dead with, and you used to pick on geeks yourself. (did you ever pick on these girls specifically? that could also explain their problem with you)

This is something I wouldn't admit to gamers. That's the equivalent of telling a gay person that you used to gaybash or a black person that you used to be in the KKK. If you have truly overcome your geek-bashing, there is no need to rub it in the face of those you used to hurt.

And finally, while sometimes gaming groups don't hang out with each other away from the table because of schedules or families or other valid reasons, if you don't hang out with each other outside of the game because you don't like each other and have absolutely nothing else in common... you shouldn't be gaming with each other. Period. Gaming IS social, and if you don't like each other, you can't game together.

I'm shocked and appalled at how easy the other posters have been on you.

You requested advice and while this reply might seem a bit rough, its honest and probably along the lines of what the girl calling you a nerdabee is thinking.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Nerdabee? Heh.

If I was in your group, I would not only mock you by calling you a wannabe, I would outright refuse to play with you unless you changed.

<snip>

I'm shocked and appalled at how easy the other posters have been on you.

And after reading this post, I know who I would outright refuse to game with, but the feeling likely would be mutual so no loss there.

I game with people with whom I have nothing else in common, so I don't hang out with them outside the game. Same goes for people I work with. Work is also a social activity, do you refuse to work with people you are not friends with?

And not everyone is comfortable talking about gaming - many people don't understand it and ask annoying questions or make assumptions about you because of it. I don't think she should be hiding it from her boyfriend, but she also should not feel like she is less of a gamer if she doesn't trumpet it from the rooftops.

 

[Acquana]

And after reading this post, I know who I would outright refuse to game with, but the feeling likely would be mutual so no loss there.

Yeah, no kidding.

I'm shocked and appalled at how easy the other posters have been on you.

And I'm wholly unsurprised that someone showed up to prove my point.

Stevelabny, seriously, don't be so harsh on her. To Raven Wintervale's defense, she's trying out new things and just wants to enjoy a hobby! After all, the main thing a lot of roleplayers say when confronted is "So what? It's just a game." So there ya go! It's a game. It means more to some people, but it not having to be a deep, personal thing isn't a bad thing for heaven's sake.

So it's just a hobby to some people rather than some kind of defining point to their personality. That shouldn't be a big deal. Certainly not to someone who hasn't met her and probably never will ...

 

[Aus_Snow]

*snip*

Filtered for content.

 

[Pbartender]

You know, you may scoff about it, but Steve's got a very good point.

I mean really, didn't you guys ever watch any of those 1980's brat-pack movies? If not, go rent and watch a few of them... epsecially Pretty in Pink, 18 Candles and The Goonies. Then, go watch Heathers.

Look, Raven, you're a cool kid... Or at least you were at one point, right? Now, you've surrounded yourself with the very people you use to publicaly look down on. You admit it yourself. What's more, you refuse to publicly announce to the people closest to you the thing you share with these people that very nearly defines them as a social group. In their eyes, you're reaping all the benifits of being a geek, without sharing in the disadvantages that the other geeks can't avoid (as easily).

The girl that's picking on you believes she's got the moral high ground. She's been picked on all her life by people just like you, and now she's got a cool kid at her mercy. In this particular walf pack, she's asserting her position of dominance over you. It a petty form of vengeance and retaliation on a surrogate who represents all of her previous tormenters. The only way to get her to stop is to stand up to her, and establish your place in the pack. Call her out privately, telling her flat out to knock it off and that she's being just as big an ass as every jerk who's picked on her. If that doesn't work, do it again, publicly.

Also, here's a little article entitled 5 Geek Social Fallacies. Read it. It might give you some insight into the minds of these girls.

EDIT: I also just noticed this:

The comments got worse when they found out I hadn't told my boyfriend or roommate that I play RPGs and had no plans to.

...before I found out my boyfriend was a gamer.

So... Your boyfriend plays roleplaying games, but for some reason you don't want to tell him that you do too? Explain this to me. It makes no sense no matter how I look at it.

 

[Desdichado]

Yeah, but that can go both ways. There may be good reasons why she doesn't want to tell people she plays. Maybe her parents bought into a lot of the D&D = Satanic crap, or maybe a bunch of other associates did.

Heck, I'm not exactly wide open about my gaming, and I think that's common for gamers of my generation. Giving Raven grief because she's not "fightin' the power" seems pretty darn inappropriate. At best.

 

[stevelabny]

Work is also a social activity, do you refuse to work with people you are not friends with?

Actually, I tend to be the friendly talkative guy at work. I DO try to be friends, or at least friendly, with the people I work with. I will always try to find out what I have in common with someone.

But if there is someone I actively DISLIKE to the extent of not wanting to be in the same room with them? Usually encouraging them to quit or trying to get them fired works. Obviously, it depends on where you work and what level of pull you have. If you're a new employee you're pretty much forced to shut up and ignore the person.

But usually if you TRY to be friendly most people are actually decent on some level, and I'm well-rounded enough to be able to talk about almost anything, so its rarely been a problem.

many people don't understand it and ask annoying questions or make assumptions about you because of it. I don't think she should be hiding it from her boyfriend, but she also should not feel like she is less of a gamer if she doesn't trumpet it from the rooftops.

Yeah, I've gotten this other times I tell people not to closet-game. Telling your significant other is definitely not trumpeting it from the rooftops. Keeping secrets like this from your SO is NOT healthy.

And if you think that talking about your hobbies to other people (family, co-workers, etc) is trumpeting from the rooftops, well, that just means your natural instinct is to hide stuff about yourself. Which either means you're ashamed too or that YOU are making assumptions that other people will not be able to understand it or be rude to you because of it.

many people don't understand it and ask annoying questions or make assumptions about you because of it

Guess so. Even if you've had the problem before, please give every new person the benefit of the doubt. As cynical as I am, I still think most people are decent. Many are just misinformed. They can still be enlightened.
(amazing, how a cynic like me who thinks a good number of people are too stupid to live, and even more than that are too stupid to breed, still somehow has more faith than most that the next person I meet won't be a total moron)

Stevelabny, seriously, don't be so harsh on her. To Raven Wintervale's defense, she's trying out new things and just wants to enjoy a hobby!

I already explained the harshness. It was requested advice, and even if you don't agree with it, at the very least it explains how the girl causing her problems is probably thinking.

After all, the main thing a lot of roleplayers say when confronted is "So what? It's just a game." So there ya go! It's a game. It means more to some people, but it not having to be a deep, personal thing isn't a bad thing for heaven's sake. So it's just a hobby to some people rather than some kind of defining point to their personality. That shouldn't be a big deal. Certainly not to someone who hasn't met her and probably never will ...

Hmm I don't get this. ANY hobby is a part of your personality. Your personality is... personal. If everybody is so flippant about what they do, why bother doing it regularly?
It obviously matters to you on some level.

I find that 99% of the time when someone posts a thread and talks about a problem with a person who can't present their own side to the story, the replies automatically identify with the poster and assume the poster is in the right.

I don't consider myself a hardcore gamer. I game "weekly" which of course usually means twice a month. Its probably about third or fourth on my depth chart of hobbies.

But I don't let people tell me that any of my hobbies are for losers or little kids. I correct people when they make misinformed opinions about things I like to do. Much like posters told Raven not to take the insults the other girl, me and the other girl are refusing to take the insult from Raven.

She doesn't seem to realize that what she's doing is insulting. She's no longer being mean on purpose. That's great, maybe now that she sees it from the other side, and how her actions are insulting, she will fix the problem on her end.
Then it will fall into the other girl's lap to see if she softens too.

And I'm not making a big deal. I'm gonna go to bed soon, and I'll check the thread when I wake up, and keep tabs until it dies (as I have a hunch I might need to make a few more replies), and maybe tell my friends about it for some laughs. I'll go see Serenity again, catch up on some TV, root on my fantasy sports teams, watch Yanks-Sox, watch some football on sunday, maybe play some d&d in the middle, and never think about about the thread during any of those activites, or after it fades away.
Why is it that whenever someone types more than a paragraph in disagreement, they are "making a big deal"?

PBartender... thanks for saying I have a point, but I think you run off on the same incorrect idea that this other girl is being petty and vengeful. I dont think its a case of "You picked one me, so now I pick on you", I think its more like "You picked on me publicly, now you pick on me silently, go away"

I really feel that Raven is the one more in the wrong here, and that she is only getting the support because she is the one who posted her story.