When you have a power contingent on an enemy moving...

[DracoSuave]

To play devil's advocate here:

There is a distinction between "moves away" and "is moved away" and if someone else is doing it to me the latter applies and not the former.

Carl

Yes. 'Move' as an intransitive verb (the first form) does not make a distinction by whether the subject of the verb is the locomotor or is moved by an external source. 'Move' as a transitive verb (the second, passive) indicates the motion is performed by the subject on the predicate.

So, intransitive:

'I moved.' That doesn't tell you that I was moved by someone else or myself. It merely tells you that my position changed.

Transitive:

'I moved myself.' This sense of 'move' indicates that I was moved, and I was the one who did it.

 

[Syrsuro]

Yes. 'Move' as an intransitive verb (the first form) does not make a distinction by whether the subject of the verb is the locomotor or is moved by an external source. 'Move' as a transitive verb (the second, passive) indicates the motion is performed by the subject on the predicate.

So, intransitive:

'I moved.' That doesn't tell you that I was moved by someone else or myself. It merely tells you that my position changed.

Transitive:

'I moved myself.' This sense of 'move' indicates that I was moved, and I was the one who did it.

Arguably correct in a strict grammatical sense, esp. when dealing with inanimate objects. However, In standard English langauge usage that is not how the words are used.

In common usage: "I moved" carries the implication that I was the one doing the moving. If someone else moved me, standard English usage is "I was moved".

Likewise, if you are talking in the third person: "He moved" carries the implication that "he" was the one performing the action, in contast to "He was moved".

In essence, the active tense tells you that "I" am the one taking the action. It is intransitive, but not because it doesn't tell you whether the object is the locomoter or is moved by an external source, but because it does tell you. No subject is needed because, when used in this way, the meaning is "I moved [myself]."

Rules are written according to standard usage and the characters are treated as animate objects, not pieces on a board (unlike, for example, chess pieces).



Carl

 

[DracoSuave]

Then what is the correct usage for the verb 'move' that indicates merely that the object has displaced location, agnostic to an outside or inside force?

That usage is 'He/She/It moved.'

Forced Movement is an exception to movement, but it is still considered a move. Therefore it triggers move-based triggers to abilities. What it does not trigger is explicitly mentioned (Opportunity Attacks). Teleportation also counts as movement.

You know this, because it's in the Tactical Movement section, discussing movement.

 

[Bayuer]

I think that entry in Forced Movement section clears all the problems we have here.

Not a Move: Forced movement doesn’t count
against a target’s ability to move on its turn. A target’s
speed is irrelevant to the distance you move it.

I know that's not exacly and clear.

On another hand. This kind move won't never provoka Oporttunity Attacks or oporrtunity actions but I think any other could apply, but that will probably depends. In the Dire Radiance Warlkock at-will attack power it cleary states:

1d6 + Constitution modifier radiant damage. If the tar-
get moves nearer to you on its next turn, it takes an extra
1d6 + Constitution modifier damage.

 

[Henry]

The way I read it, "move" has a very specific game definition, as opposed to pushed, pulled, or slid. If someone is shifted, pushed or slid away from you, that's not movement, by the "forced movement" part Bayuer quoted. Just like you can't take op-attacks on it (read the description of op-attacks, and they talk about moved versus shifting, etc.) I don't think you could target somebody with a "punish if you move" ability, and then somebody Diabolic Grasps them.

 

[jasin]

The way I read it, "move" has a very specific game definition, as opposed to pushed, pulled, or slid.

Including walking, running, flying, shifting, but not being pushed, pulled or slid? Or did you have some other definition in mind?

 

[Morgan_Scott82]

Including walking, running, flying, shifting, but not being pushed, pulled or slid? Or did you have some other definition in mind?

As I said in my previous post, this is how we've been using it in the game I'm playing in as a swordmage.

 

[Rafe]

So sure => forced movement that happens during your target's turn activates the power.

Can a target be force moved on its own turn? What powers/abilities would do that? (I haven't seen it before so am curious as to how that could happen.)

 

[Nail]

Can a target be force moved on its own turn? What powers/abilities would do that? (I haven't seen it before so am curious as to how that could happen.)

A readied action, which occurs when the target takes some sort of action during its turn.

"I Ready an action to hit him with Tide of Iron if he takes any action during his turn!"

 

[Nail]

The way I read it, "move" has a very specific game definition, as opposed to pushed, pulled, or slid.

Where is that definition?